ModernChivalry.org
Miscellaneous => The Sallyport => Topic started by: Aiden of Oreland on 2013-10-21, 01:52:26
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Ya know, if you ever watch the show "Revolution" or zombie movies/shows I can't help but think that men and women like us could easily survive. Look at the facts. In Revolution there is no more electricity so every reverts to the old methods useing swords, crossbows, muskets, and things of the sort. In zombie events guns can run out of ammo and people are bit by zombies. Our armor, such as mailli, would for one prevent being bitten by a zombie. Plate armor would deflect some shots of a musket and most sword and crossbow blows. Plus if we were to all come together survival would be likely.
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Sir Aiden, Great point. Now I really have to get my kit together.
:D
Timothy
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Hmmm...I believe this is applicable to the aforementioned situation. ;)
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/931285_295775493890220_1504230101_n.jpg)
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Guys, what many people will find as a wasted and expensive hobby, and a very "nerdy" one at that will find out that it will pay off😆 As James Bond says in 'Skyfall', "Sometimes the old ways are best." plus how many of us are there? Who knows how to farm and build also lol
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As Aiden said, there's also the aspect of needing food, water, etc. Then there is also maintenance; keeping the armor from rusting, being able to sharpen blades after usage, and such. But who doesn't want to chop up some zombies??
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We could just take food and water from whomever we liked. lol
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I am in agreement with Sir Aiden, ( maybe not the Zombie bit). I do believe that us outdoorsy medieval types have at least a step up towards surviving after the world finally goes pear shaped.
G.
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Then there is the aspect that we take care of our own....we are a family and family helps each other...we stick together and we would efinitely make that work...
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Then there is the aspect that we take care of our own....we are a family and family helps each other...we stick together and we would efinitely make that work...
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definitely even...
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"Dies The Fire" anyone?
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It gets even better, a lot of us are gun geeks too! We got this zombie thing down pat! ;)
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When war comes to the world again, it will be reversion to older ways. Technology goes away but knowledge does not have too. Mankind reverts & does what is necessary to survive. It is internalized into our being that we do so. Morals will be the only things separating one another.
In reference to Aiden's comment: "Blades don't run out of bullets."
Funny, I see the introduction of gunpowder as the downfall of medieval society as others see it the grace of modern man in technological innovation that allowed us to progress. It only brought us an easier way to kill each other and takes away the personal aspect of killing someone when done at distance.
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Haha ya I do airsofting so I got the whole "modern warfare" thing. Well if you go back to the fall of the samurai, they stood a pretty good chance when it came down it. They stood well against guns and swept the nation.
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Samurai were honorable warriors with strict moral beliefs, discipline, and code of behavior. They lived up to tradition and also modernized themselves with better weapons. Keep in mind, they had 1st dibs to Chinese gunpowder before it became a Western innovation. They used some of the earliest firearms in the later dynasties of Japan.
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GunBlade?
ya we could just go inhabit some castle, like saint mary's villa in Fort washington p.a.
we get people to safety, and we look awesome doing it.
(for the zombie bit)- imagine about to be eaten by zombies when all of the sudden a bunch of knights in shining armor rise above the hordes mounted, saving the day.
wouldnt that give people hope.
Safe to say in many apocalypse scenarios., we'd do ok.
except hellgate.
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Hellgate gives you technological innovation with mankind's fight against evil. Modern day Templars are tradition meets technology.
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oh snap!
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You have a point Lord Dane. But Medieval Europe also had gun powder warfare. They could launch projectile lile spears (before there were cannon balls) that would blow apart thy enemy into little pieces. It wasn't used because it was unholy and unhonorable.
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Actually, Knights coexisted with gunpowder on the battlefield for about 300 years or so. It wasn't until the 17th century, and the advent of the incredibly powerful heavy Musket (about .75 caliber, fired a solid iron (several oz.) ball that armour was truly made impractical.
Really, it was powder that allowed Europe to truly become master of the whole world. While in any post-apocalypse situation, a reversion to older, simpler, and easier methods will occur, this will only serve to put those who have a technological weapons advantage in an even better position, compared to the lesser-armed groups of people.
"Blades don't run out of bullets" This is true, and a very good reason to always keep one handy. But blades don't kill a person at several hundred rounds a minute, nor with enough power to punch through a cinderblock wall, nor at a range up to and exceeding a mile. This is why I think guns will still remain quite important in any such situation.
Though in a zombie situation, both blades and other melee weapons and armour would regain prominent a place in battle, and trust me, no one would be happier about this than me.
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Sir Nathan speaks well as usual. However, anyone wishing for a zombie apocalypse upon us deserves to be one of the undead themselves. Let me get my new Albion for this occasion. :P
As sad as it is, fact is firearms and technology reign over those with lesser means of defense. Handy yes but those who are dependent upon them when they fail cannot typically resort to efficiency with simpler methods of fighting or survival. I always say: Use what you have naturally first (mind, mouth, body, skill), then progress to other means of secondary tools. Does no good to give a weapon to anyone who does not have the proper mindset or skill to use it effectively or at all for that matter.
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Yes, guns are prefered today and are used because they are better. But what I'm also inferring that it requires machines to create guns and bullets. While a blade, bow, and other tools that come from mother earth are plentiful. And in todays society, more people have guns rather than swords. More display than real. But look at the fact that our group probably have more swords than guns any way. Guns will last us only for a little while after the apocalypse. But ya, if I had a real gun I would look like one of the other knights who posted himself in his armor with a gun.
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Yes, guns are prefered today and are used because they are better. But what I'm also inferring that it requires machines to create guns and bullets. While a blade, bow, and other tools that come from mother earth are plentiful. And in todays society, more people have guns rather than swords. More display than real. But look at the fact that our group probably have more swords than guns any way. Guns will last us only for a little while after the apocalypse. But ya, if I had a real gun I would look like one of the other knights who posted himself in his armor with a gun.
No I can make a simple flintlock with basic tools & parts. No machinery really needed. Just need a good knowledge of iron making/smelting or forging.
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the beauty of early firearms were that they didn't require machines. What's really happening here is you're allowing your romantic view of swords to overshadow the reality of early gunpowder weapons. ;)
A handgonne from the end of the 14th century. At the recent living history event I attended, one group did a full demo using a reproduction version of a handgonne, complete with firing it.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/HandBombardWesternEurope1390-1400.jpg/800px-HandBombardWesternEurope1390-1400.jpg)
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The way I see it, if the zombie you-know-what hit the fan, your most useful weapon is going to be your brain; how well you can improvise with the supplies you have at hand (maybe that's why zombies always want to eat your brains....). You could be stuck in a bunker full of ammunition, but no guns. If you understand how ammunition works, you could throw together some pretty effective traps, or even a rudimentary firearm.
On the other hand, if you don't know what you're doing, you can just as easily make a bow that will snap in your face as you can a gun that will explode in your hand.
In a crisis scenario like that, I wouldn't discard a weapon because it was "too modern" or "too archaic". I'd use whatever I had on hand. Heck, I'd settle for a two-by-four with a nail sticking out of it if that's all I could find. ;)
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The samurai were slow to adopt firearms over bows because early firearms were prone to malfunctions or no-fires if the powder was wet, barrel was wet, etc. A wet bow will still shoot, wet arrows still work. Once firearm tech advanced, the advantages outweighed the disadvantages.
The wise warrior, knight or otherwise, would use the best tool (weapon) for the job that he has access to. That may be a firearm. That may be a sword. That may be a land mine. That may be a vat of acid. It also might be fire... there's rarely a circumstance, barring flammable areas, where "kill it with fire!" isn't an acceptable plan. :)
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(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110416142253/nazizombiesplus/images/b/bc/Despicable_Me_Fart_Gun.gif)
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Well I mean like I said if I had a access to a gun I'd use it. But I just find making bow and arrows to be faster. Not trying to say "swords are better than guns". And yes a flint lock pistal is possible yet risky. They use muskets and such in "Revolution" but along side swirds, crosswbows, and arrows. Lets just all agree. Guns are technically suppior. Having access to any weapon is important. Swords are good for close quarters. Guns keep em away from you (yet bows are more accurate and faster to reload than flint locks). And it depends on the apocalypse. The key element is that we stick together. Instead of gambeson where kevlar with chainmail and plate over it. Keep a sword at your side and ranged weapon in your hands. Sorry if it seems like I cannot take a side. I just don't think our modern guns will last us years on end. And I don't trust those old guns. I'll keep my hands thank you.
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Ya know what! Lets just settle on a gunblade ok.
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Guns last. A revolver has changed very little in its design from the 1840s to today, and if the rigors of the post-civil war expansion west are a testament to anything, its that there's not much a lever-action won't survive. Coincidentally, many such guns take the powerful .45-70 Govt round, which I've been told, lends itself to being re-chambered.
A gun like that will last just as long as any bow, and be way more effective.
Also, as an archer, I can tell you a bow is no super-dependable, always ready and vigilant wonder weapon. It needs to be constantly unstrung (leaving a bow strung for more than a week will permanently twist the limbs), stored and kept out of moisture (prolonged exposure will soak into the wood, either expanding and weakening it, or foul the layers of glue holding the lamination together, quick immersion will soak and stretch the string, and foul the arrow fletchings, kiss your aim goodbye!), needs constant, almost everyday practice, and drawing and holding your aim is a huge pain. No waltzing about with your bow drawn like in movies, each shot is a calculated, thought-out effort. Also, using a bow powerful enough to actually kill will (no matter how strong you are) tire out your arms, making you less effective in melee combat.
Guns have none of those penalties, save for direct application of high moisture volume to the powder.
Also, making serviceable bows and arrows require a career's worth of skill. You're better off looting one than making your own.
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A board with a nail in it can save humanity. Particularly from one-eyed aliens. :)
He's got a board with a nail in it! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDnjphSq9Sg#)
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A board with a nail in it can save humanity. Particularly from one-eyed aliens. :)
I think I can remember that. Is that the one where the burn all the guns and are defenseless? Treehouse of Horrors one?
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😪 fine, I except my defeat. Sometimes letting go is harder than not. To know when you are defeated. Guns are obviously superior too swords. But its still good to keep any resource u have. U cant be picky about what u use. Survival and team work are what matters. Lets just shake on that. 👋
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unless you have a lightsaber.
I think that's fair ground, considering zombies are just as mythical as lightsabers.
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Hey, Sir Aiden, no need to take it as a defeat, just a chance to learn. Trust me, when I was your age (good God, I'm an 18 year old using that phrase! :P) I was always learning, often or not through my own misconceptions. I myself gained my love of firearms from starting with bows and crossbows, look into them sometime! :)
Trust me, I know bows are pretty freaking awesome. That's one of the reasons I shoot ;)
There is a certain ability, that of instinct aiming, that you really only get through shooting a bow. If you like them, keep at it. Also they would be good for anything involving stealth. A silencer is nothing more than a misnomer (exactly why the chic word to use is suppressor).
I'm not saying at all that bows and blades would be useless, just that in my opinion, guns will still be the predominant weapon.
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A board with a nail in it can save humanity. Particularly from one-eyed aliens. :)
I think I can remember that. Is that the one where the burn all the guns and are defenseless? Treehouse of Horrors one?
Treehouse of Horrors II, I think, but yes. :)
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😪 fine, I except my defeat. Sometimes letting go is harder than not. To know when you are defeated. Guns are obviously superior too swords. But its still good to keep any resource u have. U cant be picky about what u use. Survival and team work are what matters. Lets just shake on that. 👋
Guns aren't superior if you want to decapitate someone silently. Or if you have a grenade launcher in a shed. They are if you are trying to shoot something from 500 yards away. Again, it's all situational. :)
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Sir Nathan I have to admit I'm an archer myself. I actually was starting my medieval adiction around archery. I signed up for archery in school this year, but I have never had the time to attend sadly. And James, Thats why they have silencers and our military still use knives because a blade is still one of the perfect weapons.
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Wasn't it in the king phillips war were the advantage the native's had against the colonist was there use of bow's and arrows.
It was just so much faster and more accurate, guns back then couldn't go the distance.
but they all had swords and axes, the colonists had more men though but there were alot of casualties on both sides.
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Also remember around that time people were just strting to learn guerrilla warfare. Just a few years later we had men with muskets that could shoot great distances and were used to take out leaders and native american guides that lead british through the woods. During the Revolutionary War. Leaving british helpless. Guerrilla war fair beat the british methods of just forming a giant line. Bows were more tactical tho. You may not be surprised, but they Don't teach the history of America to England. And England sees it as a huge loss while we see it the opposite way. Yet we are great allies now.
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"Dies The Fire" anyone?
Yay! I was wondering if someone were going to mention that series of books. Society is thrust back to pre-industrial science - even guns will not function. SCA types and re-enactors literally rule what is left of the world after billions die off.... If you can get past the New-Age stuff, this is a great series for folks like us.
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Why yes it is. We will rule the world! Muahaha😈