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Main => The Round Table => Topic started by: Sir Humphrey on 2014-01-07, 04:17:27
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I'll be painting a shield soon and making a surcoat. I see many folks here design their own heraldry devices. Is there any ethical reason I can't use one of my ancestrial coat of arms as a basis for my sheild design? This is will be for living history purposes, I'm not in the SCA or similar organization. I thinking Beaumont, Courtenay or de Bohun.
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Only thing to be careful of living history-wise, would be to make sure the coat of arms is appropriate for the time period. Later period heraldry has expanded rules and can be in some instances more complicated than would have been allowed by earlier rules of heraldry.
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So de Bohun, Courtenay or
Which Beaumont?
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The first one really catches the eye but the second one would certainly be easier to paint on a shield. I suppose whatever mad 'Pablo Picasso' skills you have should also be taken into consideration. ;)
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Cousin Timothy,
Sir Henry Beaumont.
I'm shooting for the time of the Scottish Wars. All three of the men I have in mind were contemporaries. Sir Henry Beaumont, Sir Humphrey de Bohun and Sir Hugh Courtenay. Beaumont was the most successful soldier of the three. Courtenay's family did not rise to prominance until the time of Edward III. De Bohun was the most colorful and celebrated (usually because of his particularly gory death). De Bohun was one of several knights honored on a set of china back in the 1970s. "Great knights of England" or some such. Plates, mugs, teacups etc. I was able to snag one of the mugs off Ebay.
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I'll be painting a shield soon and making a surcoat. I see many folks here design their own heraldry devices. Is there any ethical reason I can't use one of my ancestrial coat of arms as a basis for my sheild design? This is will be for living history purposes, I'm not in the SCA or similar organization. I thinking Beaumont, Courtenay or de Bohun.
The only ethical concern is if you attempt to use it in a modern context. That is, claiming that you have a hereditary right to it, when the likelihood is that you don't (the rules about this can be very complicated, and just having a blood-tie isn't necessarily enough). For this, you'd have to get the appropriate institution to give you documentation supporting it.
Most of the members here have invented their own from scratch, and some have used ancestral arms as a basis for it. For our purposes you can pretty much do what you want. :)
As Ian said though, sometimes the arms can be out of period for the impression you're doing. For instance, 12th/13th century arms tended to be rather simple, with mostly geometric charges rather than complex beasts, or just a single complex charge. There was an explosion of complexity in the 14th century, just like the armor.
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What type of canvas and paint are you using to paint your shield? I just got a heater shield made out of wood for SCA and the wife and I are excited to come up with my 14th century heraldry, get it approved and paint it!
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Belemrys,
I bought one of these used. I'll be repainting it.
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=801570&name=Templar+Shield (http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=801570&name=Templar+Shield)
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Hi,
Always thought the de Bohun was very beautiful but I have always wondered why the white, blue and gold strip wasn't made a little narrower so that the three lions on each side could like up side by side in the same manner as the three on the bottom.
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Hi,
Always thought the de Bohun was very beautiful but I have always wondered why the white, blue and gold strip wasn't made a little narrower so that the three lions on each side could like up side by side in the same manner as the three on the bottom.
That's a good question. My best guess is that since the "bend" is usually rather wide in standard practice, they just accommodated the space left over. The blazon probably just mentions three lions on each side, but the positioning is just an artifact of the escutcheon shape. But like I said, it's just a "best guess".
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As Sir Edward said, there's the "legal" entitlement to heraldry, and the "using it in honor of" sort of thing. I based mine off historical surname heraldry, but I claim no direct tie or historicity to it. Bloodlines doesn't show first born, second born, etc, and there was rules with first-born son inheriting the father's heraldry, but not the second son, and such.
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The strip is not as wide in every version that I've seen. Here is one off of a tomb, although I don't know if it is contemporary with the de Bohun tomb occupant.
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woah cool
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Yeah, even with the thinner bend, it still looks like they're accommodating the escutcheon (heater shape). I'd love to see the official blazon, if there is one, to see if it specifically describes the layout of the lions, other than just 3 to either side.
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Azure, a bend per bend indented argent and gules plain cotised of the second, between six lyonceux rampant or
This blazon is for the Sir Edmund de Bohun version (with the red "bendlets" flanking the white bend).
edited to add:
Typically the blazon would not state the exact placement or division of the charges unless unusual. In this case it would be redundant to say “between six lions rampant gold, three and three”. It’s assumed that three lions will be above the bend and three below. Their exact placement is the artists attempt to best fill the oddly shaped available space.
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Azure, a bend per bend indented argent and gules plain cotised of the second, between six lyonceux rampant or
This blazon is for the Sir Edmund de Bohun version (with the red "bendlets" flanking the white bend).
edited to add:
Typically the blazon would not state the exact placement or division of the charges unless unusual. In this case it would be redundant to say “between six lions rampant gold, three and three”. It’s assumed that three lions will be above the bend and three below. Their exact placement is the artists attempt to best fill the oddly shaped available space.
Thanks, I didn't have time to google it yesterday. It's as I suspected, they're just accommodating the escutcheon rather than specifying two separate layouts on either side.
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I just stumbled on this artifact that sold at auction. I would have loved to have a shot at it, but who knows what it sold for. This harness pendent carries the same arraingment as the heater shield. Here is the description:
Rare Medieval 'Humphrey de Bohun, 4th Earl of Hereford and Essex' Heraldic Harness Pendant 024483
Copper-alloy with gilding, 10.90 grams, 33.45 mm. Circa 13th-14th century AD. A cast copper-alloy horse harness pendant with the remains of the transverse pierced lug attachment above. The pendant is in the form of a heater shield bearing the arms of Humphrey de Bohun, 4th Earl of Hereford and Essex (1276 – 16 March 1322) who was born at Pleshey Castle, Essex. Humphrey (VII) de Bohun succeeded his father as Earl of Hereford and Earl of Essex, Constable of England and the title of Bearer of the Swan Badge, a heraldic device passed down in the Bohun family. This device did not appear on their coat of arms but is featured on the personal seal. Humphrey was one of the leading military commanders of the day, taking part in Edward I's campaigns in Scotland, as well as many tournaments where he earnt a reputation for gallantry. Humphrey later became a bitter enemy of the king, promoting the reforms of the Ordinances. He was killed in battle at Boroughbridge, leading an advance across the bridge when one of the enemy pikemen thrust upwards and skewered him. Reference: Read, B. Metal Artefacts of Antiquity, vol.1, Langport, 2001 items 408-16. Very fine condition, gilding intact. Provenance: from an old English collection, found near Norham castle, Northumberland, guarding one of the key crossings of the River Tweed.
From: http://www.time-lines.co.uk/medieval-humphrey-de-bohun-4th-earl-of-hereford-and-essex-heraldic-harness-pendant-024483-35606-0.html (http://www.time-lines.co.uk/medieval-humphrey-de-bohun-4th-earl-of-hereford-and-essex-heraldic-harness-pendant-024483-35606-0.html)
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Wow, how wonderful would it have been to own something like that!
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Cousin Timothy,
De Bohun was one of several knights honored on a set of china back in the 1970s. "Great knights of England" or some such. Plates, mugs, teacups etc. I was able to snag one of the mugs off Ebay.
Thanks for the heads up as I just bought Sir John de Warenne. This one would be the brother to my 21st GGM Alice de Warenne Countess of Arundel