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Discussion: Honor
Thorsteinn:
Yes. In the show "Leverage" you see the good & true Boston Detective Lt. Bonano put aside his strict code of honor a bit when the Leverage crew so some shady things, even to the point of knowing that all of them are felons that now do what they do for the greater good.
Later when he is hurt they go to extreme lengths to help him when he is betrayed by LEO's and almost killed. He asks no questions knowing that he'd have to arrest them if he knew the answers.
But doesn't this idea of bending the rules go to the heart of that old geek question: Whom do you trust more? Batman or Superman?
Timothy:
Wow what a discussion.
Sir Patrick,
Having read your post there may have been a reason you ended up going first. I can not disagree with anything that you have said but there one portion that I would ask you for examples.
"A person can be honest, and humble, but not necessarily be honorable.'Can you please give us an example or two of an act being "honest and humble" but not honorable.
On another point I would say to some extent a modern example of Cincinnatus would be the surrendering, voluntarily, of the near absolute power held by an American president. Every four years we elect one individual with the power most dictators only dream about. At the end of the four year period (or sometimes eight) these individual surrender that near absolute power to their successor. One second past noon on the fourth/eighth year a person who held the power to destroy cites and kill millions is reduced to the status of a citizen. Never again will they hold that power in their hands. Given the history of men and the acquisition of power it is mind boggling that none , so far, have attempted to keep it past its expiration date.
Sir Douglas:
Man, why can't you guys ask easier questions? This hurts my delicate little pea brain. ;)
In all seriousness, though. With regards to this:
--- Quote from: James Anderson III on 2013-06-29, 19:11:17 ---
--- Quote ---Jocelyn: If you would prove your love, you should do your worst.... Instead of winning to honor me with your fine reputation, I want you to lose.... To show your obedience to your lover and not to yourself.
--- End quote ---
Does doing this lessen his honor (by not doing what he wants)? Would winning increase his honor by disrespecting his lover's request?
--- End quote ---
It brings up and interesting conundrum in my mind. On the one hand, purposely losing to prove his love would lessen — or at the very least, do nothing to improve — his overall "honor" in the eyes of the masses who probably care nothing about his love life. The public is there to see someone become a great tournament champion, not to see someone get the girl. But I think his personal honor would improve because of his selflessness.
Whereas on the other hand, winning the tournament would grant him "honor" with his countrymen, and perhaps his fellow knights and his king, but at the expense of his own personal honor. So essentially I suppose it would boil down to whether he wanted to appear honorable before a large group of people, or to sacrifice that in the pursuit of a — I feel — more sincere form of honor, but one that few people would know about.
It seems to me that someone who wanted to do honorable things wouldn't be doing it to impress a lot of people. They'd be doing it because it was the right thing to do. Just like a truly charitable person wouldn't give to the poor just so they could brag to people that they're charitable.
Sir Patrick:
--- Quote from: TimothyPaulGallagher on 2013-09-05, 23:29:23 ---
Wow what a discussion.
Sir Patrick,
Having read your post there may have been a reason you ended up going first. I can not disagree with anything that you have said but there one portion that I would ask you for examples.
"A person can be honest, and humble, but not necessarily be honorable.'Can you please give us an example or two of an act being "honest and humble" but not honorable.
--- Quote ---
Sure. As mentioned in my original post, honor is active. In order to set it in motion, one must have the resolve to do so. It is one thing to be honest and humble and see what the honorable course is, but all of that means little if you do not ACT on it.
EDITED to try and seperate my response from the original quote box.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Sir Nate:
I may be young but I do think Honor could be viewed from many angles.
If an evil family is known for being evil, wouldn't they shame one of their kin for being good?
But that would be to say if the rest of the world considers that family to have honor or dishonor. In world with mostly evil family's I do believe that would apply. But we don't live in a world a evil family's.
then again one might see revenge as a way to uphold ones honor. I don't believe that, one would have to avenge someone, as to when it then would be for the greater good, and your dead would be considered honorable.
In my personal opinion honor, cannot be described by talk or tales even. If you tell someone a story of the most honorable knight in the world, the word honor could still be quite alien to them, as they might view it as doing alot of good deeds.
My argument is that one can learn honor only through actions and experience.
You'd have to know what dishonor is before honor. Read someone the tale of the most dishonorable knights, they may not quite know what honor is yet, but they definetly know what not do. So after some time they can get the right of Idea of what kind of actions to carry out. The less dishonorable things you do the more honor you have, and just upholding that could gain more honor to you and your family.
Honor is upholding your codes, laws, and morals, Yet it is also performing good deeds.
I can't Describe honor, because I only have one word to describe it. Yet I can feel what honor is and do understand it, and I just know I am honorable, even though I have done some dishonorable things in the past.
I disagree with no one, Im easy.
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