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Author Topic: Discussion: Honor  (Read 42379 times)

Sir William

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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #15 on: 2010-11-03, 20:34:16 »
I was giving this some thought...most if not all of us are familiar with or aware of the HBO series Rome, right?  In Caesar's Comentarii de Bello Gallico, he mentions two soldiers by name, Lucius Vorenus and Titus Pullo, but not much else about them.  The series took their particular viewpoints regarding how the world was unfolding around them and I got to thinking...Vorenus was portrayed as a stoic, by-the-books Roman 2nd centurion while Pullo was portrayed as akin to a pirate, fighting, drinking and women were his vices and he indulged them quite a bit...but what if they got it wrong, you know?  What if there roles were switched or worse yet, they were some sort of vagabond-type soldiers who plundered indiscriminately and did all sorts of barbaric things that the Romans were notorious for against their enemies?

It is said that history is written by the victor; I have noticed in my research that English Kings, for instance, share a lot of the same attributes, if their individual descriptions are meant to be believed.  Just food for thought; and due diligence is of minor value with regard to the actual truth because no one who lived then is alive now to tell about it.
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Sir James A

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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #16 on: 2010-11-11, 03:18:23 »
I was watching A Knight's Tale again today, and there was a scene that brought this thread to mind. In the first joust between Ulrich (William) and Coleville (Edward), after the first pass, Edward approaches William and says "Sir Ulrich, I am done. I have never not finished, and I wish to maintain my honor.". After that, they both stop jousting, while William could have easily won. He took the honorable path by showing his opponent mercy, though I'm a bit confused to call that honor or mercy...
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Sir Patrick

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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #17 on: 2010-11-11, 03:43:26 »
Had they been involved in actual combat, it would have been mercy.  As they were using arms of courtsey, the only thing to lose (aside from arms, armour, and horse) would have been honor.  Just my take on the scene.
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Sir Edward

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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #18 on: 2010-11-11, 04:16:17 »
I still see that scene as firmly being an act of honor. William could have beaten him, and would have, but chose to sacrifice a sure victory to allow Edward to leave the field with his dignity intact. I see that as very honorable.
« Last Edit: 2010-11-11, 04:16:31 by Sir Edward »
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Sir William

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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #19 on: 2010-11-12, 16:19:39 »
Agreed; as he says later on in the film- you compete when you should retire, and that is knightly too.  It was a knightly act, letting him retire w/his honor intact. 
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Sir Brian

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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #20 on: 2013-05-09, 13:32:36 »
Sometimes old discussions, like fond memories need to be dusted off and brought back into the light. I happened upon this website:

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/10/01/manly-honor-part-i-what-is-honor/

This is a link to a seven part dissertation on Honor. A very informative read that I found myself nodding in agreement with on many portions of Part 1: What is honor and I’m looking forward to reading the rest.  :)
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Sir Edward

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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #21 on: 2013-05-09, 13:39:56 »

Nice! I'll take a look.
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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #22 on: 2013-05-10, 06:50:30 »
I am inclined to agree with all of you on most things.  But, after all, isn't that why we congregate here?

To add to this, I must say that chivalry, honor, truth, respect, integrity, humility, courage, are all words that are defined by the person perceiving them.

I have seen much honor in my enemy when at times I could not see it in my friends.

I also believe that honor still exists as long as people BELIEVE it still exists.  For example, we all like to moan and groan about the Hollywood "machine" and about how "out of touch with reality" some of its celebrities are.  But despite what the writers, directors, or actors may have wished to be perceived, isn't in the eyes of the beholder as to what is true or not, and therefore what is honorable?

Kingdom of Heaven, which has been well respected and equally admonished by historians, nerds, re-enactors, fans, and critics alike, has very good lessons to be learned.  If one sees them as such.  Same for The Last Samurai, which the director wholeheartedly admits to "Romanticizing Bushido much in the same way as Dumas romanticized Chivalry with his D'Artagnan trilogy."  Both movies have brought me comfort in times of need, regardless of what others thought of them.

I also believe honor is around us each and every day if we choose to see it.  There is a little boy in our neighborhood who is mentally and physically handicapped.  It's sad that most of the children in the area tend to avoid him.  Except for two.  Two brothers who play with him, whether the others wish to or not.  Yesterday the older brother basically went full speed into a wall, while at the same time, the handicapped one just apparently fell.  Both were upset.  I ended up checking on both of them.  Both were alright in the end.  It was interesting though, the older brother, who did have a nice little battle scar from his ordeal in physics, saw the handicapped boy appearing to be hurt.  After I told him I was sure his fingers weren't broken and that he'd heal in time, he immediately went to that other boys' aid.  He then told me with gestures how the other "wasn't all there" but in a polite way.  I told him I knew and also knew the others parents.  He then, even with the pain in his arm, which we all know at ten years old, blood, scabs, and cracked knuckles can almost be the brink of shock, helped the handicapped boy up, put him on his bike and helped him ride and then they both continued to play as boys do.

One of the other kids came out and started making fun of the handicapped boy.  The older brother, and his younger brother too, immediately verbally attacked the bully.  He then had the gall to call them out, and ask why they defended the "f*kn retard" and yes, this 9-11 year old used that language!  They both, together immediately responded "because he can't himself.  And he is a great guy once you take the time to know him."

I had to step in, although most times I just sit back and enjoy watching the kids play as I smoke my pipe.  I asked the bully, pretending to side with him, which apartment he lived in, which was the one I thought, and had him lead me home and away from the "hopeless."  With that too, I winked at the two brothers, who have gotten to know me, and my little two year old over the past couple weeks since they moved here, so they knew they were fine.  I took him home, explained what had happened outside.  His family said, and I quote "well, boys are boys, what the f*k are we to do?"  As a side note, that boy, the bully has a younger brother about my girl's age, who on numerous occasions has been left outside un-attended to where I've almost called CPS.  I immediately looked the parent in the eye, and replied, "and to think, my friends, my brothers, sacrificed so much, so you could have the freedom to believe that" and walked off. 

I then walked up to the other three, asked how they were and if they were still having fun.  Which of course, they all were.  The two brothers' dad came out, and I finally got to meet him.  I told him "you should be proud of your boys, they're learning well."  He just smirked after the shock settled, and replied "well, they still have much to go."

Honor is still around, chivalry is still around.  The key is if we choose to see it, accept it, and be a part to it, and make it an integral part of our lives.  Those two boys, they'll never let it die whether they know the terms yet or not.
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Thorsteinn

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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #23 on: 2013-05-11, 01:02:47 »
I've seemed to run low on spoons for replying to this via writing. Can I do a vid?
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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #24 on: 2013-05-11, 08:45:01 »
I've seemed to run low on spoons for replying to this via writing. Can I do a vid?

If you have the battery life & memory cards, by all means. :)
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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #25 on: 2013-05-11, 23:49:58 »

Do a vid? Why not?
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Thorsteinn

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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #26 on: 2013-06-22, 21:55:25 »
Honor is... Right thought & right action. It's what you do when things aren't easy. It's your name. It's who you are when no one is there to see it.

It's what you feel leaving you when you do wrong things and before you feel bad. It's what you know you need to fix before you can move on when that happens.

It's that soft voice from within speaking to you that comforts you in the dark when all have left. It keeps you warm then, helps you stand upright and fight for everything that's good and true.
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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #27 on: 2013-06-23, 13:25:17 »
Well said!
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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #28 on: 2013-06-23, 19:49:06 »
So in modern terms then ... if 'honor' is "right thought & right action" then that must make it dishonor if it is "left thought & left action." Now that just proves 'conservatives' are the very definition of honor & good-intention & 'liberals' are nothing but dishonorable curs full of malcontent. LOL  ;D  *APPLAUSE*  Thank you. thank you. I'll be here all week folks.
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Re: Discussion: Honor
« Reply #29 on: 2013-06-23, 22:14:44 »
Personal honor is as important today as ever it was.  Unfortunately there appears to be fewer and fewer people who reality check their own.  In the past the Church did a great job of instilling a real sense of it through the habit of reflection of conscience and mandatory Confession.  I've lived under 2 different honor code systems at military schools. The code is imposed on new recruits because a basic set of rules is necessary for a code to work.  One schools honor code in particular is famous, and rightfully so, because the graduates from this school are actively recruited by the combat arms branches for one reason:  You can trust everything they say to be the absolute fact. In combat this is obviously an important character trait.  The code is simple and has worked perfectly for more than 150 years: "A cadet does not lie, cheat, steal, nor tolerate those who do."  The word lie is expanded to include quibbling.  (That would mean nary a man would be left standing if this honor code was imposed upon the U S Congress.)  The code is not instilled but rather implanted in this manner...first infringement and your ass is kicked out of the place in the middle of the night.  It works great!