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Discussion: Largesse

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Sir Edward:

I figured I'd kick off the discussion of knightly/chivalric virtues and start with the virtue of Largesse.

Largesse is generosity, but those of us here in the modern day may find the historical concept of it a little surprising. A truly chivalrous knight wasn't necessarily expected to be generous to those of a lower station in society. Helping the poor was "charity", but "largesse" is showing generosity to those above you, such as your lord. It could also extend laterally, to your fellow knights. But it was assumed, and highly valued, that a knight would bring gifts to his lord from the spoils of war, and other such sources.

I remember reading somewhere online about a historical account where a knight had come across a couple that was running away from their home. A young lady of high birth was running away with a commoner, perhaps the steward of the household or something along those lines. They had taken money, and were setting off for someplace where they could start over and be together. This sounds almost like a Hollywood movie at first, until you hear what the knight did. Upon learning of this, he took their money, sent them on their way, now destitute, and then returned to town and spent the money on his fellow knights, buying them food and drink. And then retold the story of how he obtained the money, and held it high as a shining example of his chivalry. He was showing the couple kindness by not dragging them back home, and yet deprived them of the funds that would have permitted them to commit this wrong-doing (mixing of classes, eloping, etc). He then showed Largesse by sharing his well-earned money with his fellow knights.

To the modern person, this sounds monstrous. But we have to remember how integral the classes and stations of society were in those times, and the importance that was placed upon it.

Bringing Largesse into the 21st century, how do you think it should be treated? Being generous to those around you is always a good thing of course, but do you think any of the historical notions have a place in today's society?

Sir William:
That's funny...that almost sounds like one of those little story-asides from the tale of Erec and Enide, by de Troyes.  Didn't Erec come upon a commoner priest running away with a maiden to get married, and he treated them similarly?

Anyway.  To answer the question, in modern times such behavior would be frowned up, one would think, until you factor in politics and how the constituents of one are much more financially secure than the constituents of another- and said richer ones got their riches on the backs of the poorer ones...I'm sure they tell their 'war stories' over brandy and cigars and it is considered a good thing to have done so...maybe it would fit right in.

I always read such accounts (now, as opposed to when I was a child and thought it grand) and think to myself that toadying knows no chronology- it just is.

Sir Patrick:
I think it does, but only in certain instances.  For example, let's say you win some kind of sales contest, or something at work.  The prize is a gift card to a restraunt  (spoils of war).  To treat your fellow workers (knights) to lunch with it would be both a display of generousity and largesse.  On the other hand, treating your boss (lord) to lunch would probably not be percieved as knightly in this day and age!  However, let's say that by coming in with the top sales, your contribution to the office enables your boss to obtain a bonus.  At that point, your spoils of war have enriched your lord in an acceptable manner.  In my opinion, our egalitarian society makes only lateral displays of largesse acceptable.  However, by putting in an honest day, one can still indirectly spread largesse vertically.

Sir Brian:
In our modern era of universal relativism (I know that proclamation is almost an oxymoron),  ;) such an account as you provided us with as an example, actually demonstrates more just how far society has progressed into its current state of insistent narcissism.

The far more subtleness of that knight’s largess was not the redistribution of the money from the impetuous and embezzling lovers but by the knight’s willingness to sacrifice his time and most importantly endure the burden of his conscience. Relieving the couple of their money certainly wouldn’t have been a difficult physical task for him to perform, yet the more difficult task would have been to carry the hurt and anguish and probably the vehement anger of the couple as he rode away with their pilfered hopes and dreams.

For that time in society, the knight did a most noble and honorable favor for the lovers though they certainly would’ve never thanked the knight for it. By taking such responsibilities upon him when the love-blinded couple could not or would not, the knight enabled them a harsh but precious opportunity to discover the true temperament of their affections. Since the lovers were of different ends of the societal scale and in spite of loving each other enough to take such drastic and permanent steps to be together, they would always be separated by their preconceived boundaries stemming from their origins. The knight had essentially leveled the psychological playing field for the couple by putting them into a dire situation with only themselves to manage. Will the couple’s love survive the stark and harsh realities of life or will they discover that their love affair was more of an infatuation? – Regardless of the lover’s results the knight will have to shoulder the burden of his decision to generously right an obvious wrong without ever knowing if the outcome was good or bad.

Sir Patrick:
That is an interesting point, Sir Brian, and I must admit it perplexed me at first.  I had always asummed largesse to be generosity in bestowing gifts or wealth (though not in the same spirit as charity), but after reading your post I checked the definition online.  Webster's defines largesse as I had initally thought, but also says it is a generousity of spirit as well (the point of your post).  THAT certainly adds an entirely new dimension to the virtue and its application in the modern world (not to mention bumps it up a few notches on my heirarchy of knightly virtues!).

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