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Historical Accuracy of a 14th plate gorget?

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Sir Brian:
During this season at MDRF when I was discussing my harness with Sir Barchan, he told me that my
Mercenary Tailor 14th century gorget was not appropriate for the timeframe of my harness – i.e. 1340ish.
I was a bit taken aback since I was reasonably certain that plated gorgets were plausible even
during the late 13th century and I informed him as such including the point that the Mercenary
Tailor version was resembled more of brigandine style than solid plate. I vaguely recalled a reference
to an obscure document dated around 1294 referring to the purchase of sixty plate gorgets but
couldn’t recall where I read it. Fortunately a related discussion took place on the My Armoury Forum
last year and one of the replies provided the precise reference!  :)
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13672&highlight=gorget

What is more a web search for the source of that information provided this link with a great many
excerpts from the referenced book…I will provide the link but it may have to come back off if Sir Ed
deems it to be a copyright infringement.  :-\

European Armor 1066~1700, Claude Blair
http://www.13c.ru/texts/blair.pdf

btw, the above link is a great reference source for helms, crests and surcoats!     

Sir Edward:

It's not copyright infringement to merely place a link, so I think we're OK. :)

I'll have to take a look at these, this will be an interesting discussion!

Sir Edward:

I remember that discussion on myArmoury, actually. They're right, the design that was mentioned in the OP is really more a 15th C design, not the 13th that it claims to be.

Looking at the PDF, it sounds like what they're describing in the early 14th and back into the 13th are more like simple bevors, lacking the complex curves of the later designs, much the way great helms of the period did not have the complex curves of the later bascinets. So which gorgets of a sort existed, it's hard to make the claim that form-fitting plate gorgets made of multiple pieces would have existed at the time.

However, since the one you're using is more of a brig style, I don't know, since nothing really seems to speak to that one way or the other. I can say that none of the effigies I've seen from the time seem to have that, as they seem to progress from mail coifs straight into aventails on bascinets.

Of course, as the document mentions though, it's hard to know what they wore underneath, since the effigies and drawings only show the outer layers.

Sir Brian:

--- Quote ---However, since the one you're using is more of a brig style, I don't know, since nothing really seems to speak to that one way or the other. I can say that none of the effigies I've seen from the time seem to have that, as they seem to progress from mail coifs straight into aventails on bascinets.
Of course, as the document mentions though, it's hard to know what they wore underneath, since the effigies and drawings only show the outer layers.
--- End quote ---

Your opinion coincides with my thoughts exactly.  I don’t wish to disrespect Sir Barchan, but I think he was mistaken. If I wore the typical bascinet with aventail then my gorget wouldn’t even be visible.  :-\

Sir Gerard de Rodes:
Interesting.  ???
It really depends on how strict you want to be in your authenticity.

As our group specialises in the period from the mid to the late C14th we do come accross similar quandaries too. Some members buy kit just to find that it is far too late for our chosen period  ::)
As we have seen no references or evidence that gorgets where worn we try to say away from using them.
We tend to use cerveliers and bascinets with aventails or mail coifs. The mail aventail is sometimes worn over a gamboised aventail so affording extra neck and shoulder protection. We find this also gives the destinctive wide, tapering neck shape seen on many effigies of the period, most famously;
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/england/canterbury-cathedral-photos/xt-4310.jpg

 If our members still choose to wear a gorget, for it`s extra protection, then they usually wear it under their jupon/tabard.
Some (including myself) even often use a mail mantle or standard, but once again the period of these is usually under question so I`m not too sure of the authenticity of these;
http://www.sgfnet.co.uk/owainglyndwr/OwainGlyndwr09/Owain%20Glyndwr%202009/content/DSC_0286_large.html

The way I look at is that a lack of evidence for their existance isn`t necessarily evidence of the lack of them. It makes sense that some form of neck and shoulder protection was required as these areas are vunerable to heavy blows, but what is obvious is that any extra protection must have generally been hidden. It may have taken the form of plates attached to the COP/Brigandine or in the form of seperate plated protector like yours.

I personally like your gorget but if you are bothered what others think then I would suggest that, untill you have evidence of the gorget worn over your tabard, you wear it underneath  ;) That should keep the authenty nazis off your case  :)

G

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