"Success is never final. Failure is never fatal. It is courage that counts."
                -- Winston Churchill

Author Topic: 14th cen armor question- Tabbards/Surcoats/et al.  (Read 391 times)

Thorsteinn

  • Dodger of Suicidal Bostonians
  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,446
  • Never give up, never surrender.
14th cen armor question- Tabbards/Surcoats/et al.
« on: 2017-04-18, 16:23:04 »
Were surcoats, tabbards, & whatnot a going thing in the 14th cen? Specifically around near modern Italy & Germany? When & where did waffenrocks come in?
« Last Edit: 2017-04-18, 16:29:25 by Thorsteinn »
When the World shout's "Give Up!", Hope whispers "Try one more time."

Jon Blair

  • Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: 14th cen armor question- Tabbards/Surcoats/et al.
« Reply #1 on: 2017-04-18, 20:18:43 »
When in the 14th C? Over the 100 year period, fashions changed considerably. From what I've read, the surcoat (or surcotte) was going out of fashion in the earlier part of the century, changing to the cyclas, a close fitted garment that had a short front hem with knee length side and back hems. By the beginning of the third quarter of the century, jupons were all the rage for the well-dressed man-at-arms. At the close of the century, cloth covering for armor was almost completely abandoned.
Waffenrock (from wāfenroc or wāpenroc "weapon tunic") seems to be just the German name for the surcoat, although it was later used to refer to various German military uniforms until 1945.
"Diligo bonus quod contemno malum"

Azure, a saltire argent charged nine mascles azure

Thorsteinn

  • Dodger of Suicidal Bostonians
  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,446
  • Never give up, never surrender.
Re: 14th cen armor question- Tabbards/Surcoats/et al.
« Reply #2 on: 2017-04-20, 19:31:04 »
This was posted as a reply over on the Armor Archive just now.

http://www.larsdatter.com/mens-surcoats.htm
When the World shout's "Give Up!", Hope whispers "Try one more time."

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,993
Re: 14th cen armor question- Tabbards/Surcoats/et al.
« Reply #3 on: 2017-04-20, 23:17:32 »
Region specific to England and France, but a good primer (but note that when it comes to martial fashion, a lot of it is very region specific, the cyclas for example is mostly peculiar to England):

http://cottesimple.com/articles/martial-surcottes/
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Sir Rodney

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,118
  • Inquit Corvus
    • The Mercenary Company Nevermore
Re: 14th cen armor question- Tabbards/Surcoats/et al.
« Reply #4 on: 2017-04-21, 02:18:38 »
Great resources!  Thank you.   :)
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history." - Roger the Shrubber