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Author Topic: Jousting  (Read 2751 times)

MDJouster

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Jousting
« on: 2016-06-03, 02:34:11 »
Where to begin...
My wife and I have been jousting for over a Decade.  We started out with a "heavy armour" ren fair troop but became fascinated with historical jousting and the sport revival coming from Europe.  For me the epitome of jousting is what the fellows out of Buckeburg have put on in Sankt Wendel and a few other places around Europe. 

Historically, I have found evidence that there has been jousting occuring over the last 400 years.  In the US most of what we see is at ren fairs that actually has its roots in Wild West shows.  Back in the 60's before there were ren fairs there were travelling shows similar to Wild Bill Hickok and Anne Oakley and Vaudeville shows with jugglers, and slapstick comedy skits similar to a lot of ren fair entertainment we see today.  Then came El Cid, Excaliber, Ivanhoe and LadyHawk and some of those travelling shows changed to medieval themes and the Cowboys dropped their pistols for closet rods.  Hanlon Lees and the New Riders of the Golden Age both started out as wild west shows.
In Europe there was a different history.  In the 15th century in southern Europe riding schools were established and they developed training which we now call dressage.  Dressage is of course French for training and it started out as training of  cavalry for battle.  In the 16th century jousting was supplanted from the most prestiges equestrian sport by a competitive dressage display called the Carousel but it  did not appear to die out.
Now the lance charge quit being an effective technique pretty early but mounted swordsmanship continued to be trained around the world through the second world war until the horse was completely replaced with mechanized travel.

There is at least one castle in Europe that claims to hold a regular tournament every few years with competitors wearing their ancestors armour who are related to people who competed there in the 16th century.  These claims may of course be spurious but there are records of events like the Eglington Tournement and the Meshianza in Philedephia during the American revolution as well as numerous events in the early 20th century that make it easy to believe it was quite probable similar events were held all over Europe.

Now while we have tons of US civil war reenacting in the US in Europe there is a lot more emphasis on the middle ages when the US didn't even exist.  Some places have the continuing traditions but many places forgot them.  Jousting was the playtime of the rich and if the rich found other hobbies it would go away.  but the reenactors came back and present a style sometimes called European jousting here.  They didn't have the showmanship of the vaudeville actors jousting in the US but they had the history and took a more scholarly approach.

Running out of time for time ... More to follow... open for questions.

Sir Brian

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #1 on: 2016-06-03, 20:29:12 »
Excellent post! Looking forward to reading more! :)
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Sir Rodney

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #2 on: 2016-06-05, 05:44:21 »
Thank you for sharing.  Not having rode with a couched lance is the one regret I have in life.   :(
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Sir Martyn

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #3 on: 2016-06-09, 19:11:12 »
Mike - thanks for sharing. 

Don't know how we could swing this, but it would be great to do an Order meet-up/event sometime with jousting (at least discussion if not action) as part of the agenda.  I know everyone would welcome the chance to spend more "off duty" time with you guys, your horses and see your gear close up to ask questions, tilt at Sir James, etc.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-10, 18:11:46 by Sir Martyn »
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Sir Brian

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #4 on: 2016-06-10, 21:32:14 »
tilt at Sir James...

That's when you had me!  ;D
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Lord Dane

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #5 on: 2016-06-11, 12:37:19 »
Always interesting reading. :) Thanks for the insight.  Wish my esquestrian skills were up to par.
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Sir James A

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #6 on: 2016-06-12, 01:24:37 »
tilt at Sir James...

That's when you had me!  ;D

I, umm, wait, what just happened?
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Sir Brian

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #7 on: 2016-06-12, 09:57:56 »
tilt at Sir James...

That's when you had me!  ;D

I, umm, wait, what just happened?

Don't worry about it! Just stand right here and don't move!
(*Gives the secret hand signal to Mike to start his run*;)
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MDJouster

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #8 on: 2016-06-12, 15:44:39 »
We do have space for camping.  We actually hosted a Markland event once ages ago.

Mike - thanks for sharing. 

Don't know how we could swing this, but it would be great to do an Order meet-up/event sometime with jousting (at least discussion if not action) as part of the agenda.  I know everyone would welcome the chance to spend more "off duty" time with you guys, your horses and see your gear close up to ask questions, tilt at Sir James, etc.

MDJouster

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #9 on: 2016-06-12, 15:55:33 »
One thing to consider.  If you are looking for the "true historic perspective".  Riding was a significant part of a knights training and is good exercise.  There is value in the training beyond just becoming a good, fit rider.  I understand it is expensive and time consuming but there are a lot of benefits.

Its a relationship between man and horse that you can't replicate in any other fashion.  A form of communication that has no other comparison.  Learning to trust and inspire a 1500 lbs herd animal to do things against its nature, running aggressively at another animal, is not normal for a herbivore.

I have read some posts from Luke Binks and Arne Koets, top level jousters and riders,  and there are things you can't understand that really help transcend the medieval texts, even back into non-mounted activities.

Always interesting reading. :) Thanks for the insight.  Wish my esquestrian skills were up to par.

Thorsteinn

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #10 on: 2016-06-12, 20:43:52 »
One thing to consider.  If you are looking for the "true historic perspective".  Riding was a significant part of a knights training and is good exercise.  There is value in the training beyond just becoming a good, fit rider.  I understand it is expensive and time consuming but there are a lot of benefits.

I do ride, with gear, and it is expensive. Why my Vulcan 750 is a persnickety gnarly beast that likes to go it straight lines very very fast, hates corners & cornering, and has practically no real usable range. Would you believe a radiator is $400?! Just for the radiator!

Oh, you meant horses? Yeah I can ride those too. My first MTBI with PCS was from a horse that bucked (cow kicked?) me off when I was 8. Took me 20 years to work up the courage to get back in the saddle. Beyond my issues there is the problem that, at least around here, to truly get good with a horse means having your own land. And that means 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars. For myself I could have learned more, my mom's has had horses again for the last 14 years (she used to be a trainer in the Cuyahoga Valley) & I have a few friends in Cali that have them and they all to SCA Equestrian activities too, but I don't "get" it, so I don't spend the time & energy to get better in the saddle. Heck I don't even get the attraction of riding a motorcycle all the time and I DO ride a motorcycle all the time as my main transportation (even in winter).

I think what jousters do is cool, and am full willing to watch and support you, but it's not something I will ever love enough to spend the $100,000+ to even start to get good enough.

 I do have something to bring though for I am an excellent cook & baker. Surly Jousting is hungry work?
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MDJouster

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #11 on: 2016-06-13, 21:50:44 »
I hope I don't come off as arrogant I just wanted to point out there is a lot to be learned from mounted activity.

Sir Rodney

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #12 on: 2016-06-14, 04:50:21 »
I hope I don't come off as arrogant I just wanted to point out there is a lot to be learned from mounted activity.

A: You didn't.  You spoke from experience which is valuable to those of us less experienced.

B: You're right.  My wife grew up on horses and she fondly recalls the personal connection.  She also speaks about the stubborn streaks and naughty nature of some her horses.   ;)
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Lady Jouster

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #13 on: 2016-06-17, 20:31:19 »

B: You're right.  My wife grew up on horses and she fondly recalls the personal connection.  She also speaks about the stubborn streaks and naughty nature of some her horses.   ;)

LOL! Yes, some can be *quite* naughty. But then there are those, like my Loki, who will quite literally go out of their way to save you from a fall. On several occasions, I have taken a mighty hit in the lanes and been tilted to the right beyond my ability to recover. And that horse, at a full gallop, has stepped to the side and *pushed* me back onto his back. At one point I was borderline heat stroking at VARF and several folks told me I was a fool to ride, let alone joust. I got in Loki's saddle, took a deep breath, and immediately felt centered and calm. We did the entire joust with him fully aware of my compromised state. My riding instructor happened to be there that day watching. At the end of the joust she came up to me, "You know you only made it through that because he was going side to side to keep you on his back, right?" Yep, I do!

My dad thinks horses are crazy beasts and I'm a nutcase for riding them. But to be on a horse that you have developed a connection with, a horse that you have trained from a youngster and you know each other like you know yourselves... There is a freedom there that I just can't find anywhere else. I think and he acts. I climb on the back of an 1,800 pound prey animal that is wired to run from danger. And he trusts me to keep him safe while another (usually dominant) horse is charging at him carrying another human with a weapon. All while he keeps me safe as well. There's nothing like it.

Lady Jouster

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Re: Jousting
« Reply #14 on: 2016-06-17, 20:33:42 »
I'm sure we could arrange either a one day event or a weekend of camping at our place and do some jousty talks and demos. And for anyone interested, we do have a horse or two that I've given lessons on. I would just require that anyone who wanted to ride wears hard toed boots and a riding helmet.