Main > The Armoury
Arms and armor 12th century sword. Two handed?
Sir Nate:
--- Quote from: Sir Edward on 2015-02-20, 21:17:48 ---
--- Quote from: Sir James A on 2015-02-19, 23:19:32 ---I'm not sure if it's an outlier statistically, but remember there is "common" and "happened but not commonly".
--- End quote ---
That's my understanding, that "longswords" existed as early as the 12th, but weren't very common.
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Oh, I've always told people it wasn't seen until the mid 13th century.
Usually when talking about how many pre 1250 movies give the hero a two handed sword(particulary ironclad and KOH).
(edit by Sir Edward: moved the message outside of the quoted block)
Sir William:
Naythan, you should not use movies as a reference to weapon historicity- because it rarely happens and when it does, usually by accident. There are a few exceptions, Arn: Night Templar comes to mind as they went to Albion for all of their weapons needs (oh to have been one of the knight-extras, I would simply have demanded the sword as recompense in lieu of cash lol)...actually, Arn's the only one to come to mind that went that extra length for their swords. KoH (1184AD w/a bastard sword) and Robin Hood (1199AD or thereabouts, singlehand) went with Windlass, while Ironclad appears to have went with someone else. Then there's all the smaller budget films- I don't know who they're getting their weapons from but some of them are dog-ugly. I've always thought that would be the case- not everyone's going to have the pristine man-killer we're so used to seeing. I'm sure someone somewhere carried the Ford Pinto of swords just as the nobleman would have the Lamborghini of swords.
Sir James A:
^ what Sir William said. Every time you use a non-period source, you're getting farther and farther from what you're trying to recreate. Think of the old "telephone" game, and what the starting phrase vs ending phrase is.
Sir Nate:
--- Quote from: Sir William on 2015-02-24, 17:15:57 ---Naythan, you should not use movies as a reference to weapon historicity- because it rarely happens and when it does, usually by accident. There are a few exceptions, Arn: Night Templar comes to mind as they went to Albion for all of their weapons needs (oh to have been one of the knight-extras, I would simply have demanded the sword as recompense in lieu of cash lol)...actually, Arn's the only one to come to mind that went that extra length for their swords. KoH (1184AD w/a bastard sword) and Robin Hood (1199AD or thereabouts, singlehand) went with Windlass, while Ironclad appears to have went with someone else. Then there's all the smaller budget films- I don't know who they're getting their weapons from but some of them are dog-ugly. I've always thought that would be the case- not everyone's going to have the pristine man-killer we're so used to seeing. I'm sure someone somewhere carried the Ford Pinto of swords just as the nobleman would have the Lamborghini of swords.
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I wasn't sourcing films, I was referncing a situation where people think knights all had swords that size or that they were common because movies in KOH, Ironclad, and Brave heart, the hero has a two handed sword, or a great sword. Im not saying that means they did, Im saying its because of films like that Ive had to tell people they didn't have two handed swords like that yet.
Sir Edward:
--- Quote from: Sir Naythan on 2015-02-20, 22:26:02 ---Oh, I've always told people it wasn't seen until the mid 13th century.
Usually when talking about how many pre 1250 movies give the hero a two handed sword(particulary ironclad and KOH).
--- End quote ---
They became somewhat more common in the late 13th, and much more popular in the 14th, where we start to see the manuscripts describing their use. So you've been erring on the correct side of things. :)
Ironclad is particularly bad in some ways, in that the sword isn't just a longsword, it's freaking huge. The really large two-handers are a much later invention, being seen more with Landesknechts, and bearing swords, and a variety of other 15th/16th c. uses. These would be pretty much unheard of prior to the 14th, if I recall correctly.
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