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Author Topic: SCA?  (Read 17696 times)

Eva de Carduus Weald

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #30 on: 2014-08-20, 17:40:24 »
Fair enough I guess. I suppose there is no perfect group, and if I want one that works in a way I think sensible I will have to create it myself but ultimately I do love the SCA, even if at times it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I love fighting, I love combat in general, I love the concepts of knighthood both martial and otherwise. But fighting isn't everything, in fact it is really quite a narrow thing overall and there is so very much more that could be celebrated to the same extent and I can't find a single group that does. *shrugs* no big deal really just meandering thoughts.

Sir William

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #31 on: 2014-08-20, 20:11:59 »
I think that as long as you're enjoying it, does it truly matter?  Being crowned by might of arms or popularity contest- which would be more fair?
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Eva de Carduus Weald

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #32 on: 2014-08-20, 20:40:07 »
I suppose it doesn't matter really. More the rose colored glasses shattering a bit. As for fair, I don't think any system is fair for everyone, but rather you have a very small subset of people to choose from. To be honest the job sounds exhausting, but I guess I like to champion those who might want the job but under the current rule set can't even have a shot either by choice or circumstance. Not saying I have a perfect answer, just trying to give food for thought.

Sir James A

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #33 on: 2014-08-20, 21:53:04 »
Being able to kick the butt of everyone else with a stick is not a solid basis for the head of government.

And strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government, either.

Name me another contest that is fair.

Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!

That shows the person is willing to sacrifice time, money, and body to prove they are worthy. That shows they are willing and able to defend the Kingdom or Principality if need be. Who is willing to prove, not just boast, that they are good, and one that has no judges and no politics in the achieving of the Crown (or at least aught not to).

False. It shows that one person is able to beat another in combat on any given day. Some people can put 10x the level of effort of their opponent and still lose, due to conditioning, natural talent, unequal gear, or any other list of variables. The level of sacrifice of money, body and time is a poor measure of suitability, in my opinion.

one of the Rulers duties is to take the field with their army. Would you have the Army of Ansteorra led by a weakling or coward?

A good singles fighter does not make a good war leader, and fixation upon their own combat situation, to me, weakens their ability to focus on leading an actual group or army. Personally, I don't want someone on the front lines. I want someone on top of the hill, with an overview of the combat, able to see the entire situation, who can relay orders accordingly. It makes sense being a ruler's duty, as the consensus for choosing a king and queen probably came primarily from a group of fighters, not event organizers or administrative-type people (I'm guessing).

Me? I'll take a weak and cowardly strategic genius capable of leading an army to victory, over somebody who is better at hitting somebody else with a stick before they get hit themselves. ;)

I think what's going on here is that you guys are looking at this issue from wildly different perspectives.  A king and queen in the SCA aren't really analogous in responsibility to a real king or queen in a real monarchy.

Yep, this is the biggest point to make. It's odd, but you have to completely disregard history when discussing some things in the SCA, or it won't make any sense.

The titles within the SCA are confusing for someone used to the terms as they are used in the real world.  A duke in real life is subordinate to a king.  In the SCA a duke is just the title used to denote a person who has been king more than once.

I had no idea about that, but well, perfect example of my statement above.

I think that as long as you're enjoying it, does it truly matter?

This is precisely why I've done armored combat (WMA/HEMA) for 3 years now, have possibly 1 or 2 wins in the course of those 3 years, and still love everything about it. It's not about a W or L for me, it's about having fun doing it... with a side of entertaining and educating folks too. :)
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Eva de Carduus Weald

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #34 on: 2014-08-20, 22:03:23 »
Sir James, thank you. This is a fantastic post! I also agree with every point you made. Honestly I am loving the SCA as a whole I don't want anyone to think I am dissing it, but I think the way that a couple of portions of it are set up could be done better.

Thorsteinn

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #35 on: 2014-08-21, 03:39:01 »
You guys keep saying history like it has to have happened 500 years ago to matter. Our customs society wide are based on history, the history of the SCA, and soon that history will pass out of living memory. Marion Bradley is dead, Dianna Paxton is very old and Dr Fred Holland (known as Flieg) will probably pass within a decade. All we will have left is the story, the hiStory. So I would advocate for reading up on it's Origins here:

http://history.westkingdom.org/Year0/index.htm
http://history.westkingdom.org/Year1/FirstTournament.htm
http://history.westkingdom.org/Year1/SecondTournament.htm

and here:

http://aspiesean.tumblr.com/post/65249177484/a-mostly-true-story-of-knights-kings-and
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Sir Rodney

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #36 on: 2014-08-21, 04:01:58 »
As stated above, don’t assume SCA structures or titles are based upon historical example.  It’s a wildly weird organization that has grown and morphed since the famous 1966 backyard party in Berkeley, California.

Also keep in mind that the King and Queen are replaced every 6 months (in my kingdom).  The real keepers of the realm are the Seneschal and the council of kingdom officers.  These volunteers serve 2 to 3 year terms (in my kingdom) and have various fancy titles which basically boil down to the modern equivalents of chairperson, treasurer, clerk, safety director, IT director, reporter, etc.

I’ve always held these individuals in high regard as they are basically working a part time job with no pay, many weekends taken, real legal responsibilities, having to nag others to submit required reports on time as well as entertaining the inevitable whiners.  They do this in addition to their real job and family responsibilities for 2 years while trying to remember why they joined in the first place (to have fun!).   :o
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Sir James A

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #37 on: 2014-08-21, 14:49:52 »
Sir James, thank you. This is a fantastic post! I also agree with every point you made. Honestly I am loving the SCA as a whole I don't want anyone to think I am dissing it, but I think the way that a couple of portions of it are set up could be done better.

You're welcome. I'm not trying to knock the SCA either, I did a year of heavy combat back when I was about 20, but it (SCA heavy) wasn't really my thing. I was more into ogling the armor and it's functionality (articulation, design, assembly), rather than actually fighting. The SCA is (to my knowledge) the largest medieval-based organization in the entire world, so there's clearly a draw to it for many people. If I weren't overbooked with so many other things, I'd probably go back in for the historical / craftsman aspects of it. While I agree the way they select King/Queen is biased and unconventional, it wouldn't make a bit of difference to me who is King/Queen, because I wouldn't really care; I'm just there for the armor and social aspects. :)
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Eva de Carduus Weald

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #38 on: 2014-08-21, 16:31:01 »
I actually am heavily involved in the Baronial guard and am really starting to do a lot of crafting, i sculpt functional personalized wax seals for example. If I had the money and the time I would love to craft real plate armor and chain mail but sadly I don't have the time and money to. I am also finding joy in the crafting armor oogling side of things and I have no problem enjoying whatever monarch makes their way on the throne. I really more brought the whole thing up for conversation and to express my confusion as to how the way it was set up was a good way to have administration. If the rest of the Officers are the ones who actually run things then that makes a lot more sense.

The only thing I got my fur ruffled over is the, I am certain unintentional, suggestion that I or others like me might be a weaking or a coward. I am not cool with that. Otherwise as far as I am concerned it is all academic.

Thorsteinn

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #39 on: 2014-08-21, 22:45:56 »
The only thing I got my fur ruffled over is the, I am certain unintentional, suggestion that I or others like me might be a weaking or a coward. I am not cool with that. Otherwise as far as I am concerned it is all academic.

It is unintentional, that was not directed at you. I've been in the SCA 33 years, and I've fought for 15 of those. To allow non-combatants to win the throne is to allow a much higher chance that there are weaklings, cowards, etc who win. It has happened but, especially for the women who've won, it is much rarer.

BTW Eva, your Kingdom has the rarest thing of all: A Queen of your's won the Crown by her own hand, facing her hubby in Finals. It was said to be one of the most brutal, awesome, technical, furious, and overall spectacular events anyone had ever seen.

In the West we have several women who've won the Coronet, but none have won the Crown. Only Texas has that.
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Eva de Carduus Weald

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Re: SCA?
« Reply #40 on: 2014-08-22, 15:13:10 »
I understand where you are coming from and I have hear stories and lore about the awesome Queens we have had. Although I hadn't heard about that one, it makes my heart proud.

Honestly I can see it from your perspective, mostly I was trying to give some food for thought more than anything else. :)