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Historical HEMA Tournaments and Deeds of Arms
Sir Patrick:
Eye slots were definitely narrower. Laurin website says they cannot be any wider than 1 cm!
Btw, I believe Lord Rodney's mishap was not caused by a blade going into his ocular, but rather a sliver of metal that broke off of one during the bout. Talk about a close call. I'm an optometrist, so these things are always near to me heart ;)
Sir Brian:
The Laurin Tournaments are awesome and I love their rendition of a tournament setting far more than any of the BOTN events. Yet I haven’t seen any actual videos to determine if they are as skilled and thereby controlled with their techniques as what is evident in the WMAW deed of arms videos because by just the photos they appear to be using Blossfechten techniques while armored, which there is nothing wrong with that but it isn’t historically accurate.
We’ve contemplated several possible workarounds for using steel or at the very least aluminum wasters which I believe I brought up during the first weekend at VARF. Yet the general consensus was that the wooden wasters were the best compromise between safety, potential damages to our harnesses and cost effectiveness. Even though steel would be the optimum in accuracy there is also the cost consideration because the two steel blades I own are not rigid enough and ill suited for harnischfechten whereas Sir Edward does have an Arms & Armor Fechterspiel that is perfectly suited for it, we would still have to procure another one and I personally would rather spend my equipment funds on any other blade as I do not care for the Fechterspiel enough for the price.
Still, wooden wasters were period and used in training to save the steel and IIRCC Sir Edward mentioned that once or twice in some of our harnischfechten demos.
Wooden wasters offer the best all around solution for safety, cost effectiveness, durability and aesthetics without compromising historical accuracy. During our final shows of each day when we also did our cutting and thrusting demonstrations we displayed the difference between blades designed primarily for cutting as opposed to thrusting during harnischfechten duels.
Ian:
Hmmm... I see plenty of photos of trying to thrust to targets like the armpit and such, which are more than appropriate for armored combat. Cuts to places only covered by maille... I've also stated that there is video on the recent Torneo del Cigno Bianco showing them half-swording with steel swords, but I can't link it because it's a direct facebook upload, not a YouTube video. They're using appropriate technique.
I still don't get how wood is magically safer than steel. You guys seem to be of the opinion that it is, but have offered no reason as to why. Explain why a non-flexible piece of wood that doesn't give at all in a thrust is safer than a piece of steel that absorbs the force of thrust by converting the energy of the thrust into the spring energy of flexing the blade.
I get the cost concerns, that's valid. But the safety thing I'm not buying off on. Because all I'm hearing is that wood is safer than steel because it is... that's not a reason.
It's kind of like the elite jousters now using steel coronels because they're safer than a lot of the other alternatives.
Sir Martyn:
--- Quote from: Ian on 2014-06-05, 01:35:11 ---
What I find to be the pinnacle of the HEMA / WMA art form is what I will call the Living History HEMA tournament style. It's a style of tournament dedicated to the two things I'm most drawn to in the modern medieval world, the historical fighting arts of our ancestors combined with the historically correct gear and costume. It's about recreating the Medieval Deed of Arms as it was. This is what I love about Medievalism. I want to recreate and know what it was like, I don't want to turn the Middle Ages in what I wish they could have been, I want to discover the truth and feel the real thing.
One thing you'll always see in these tournaments is that they are using steel weapons. They're using historical gear, and steel weapons. They use half-swording, they thrust... and they don't get serious injuries. Obviously there are unavoidable risks that are inherent in a combat sport, but anyone who participates would be a fool to not realize that going in. They're using steel, and they're doing it safely.
--- End quote ---
I totally get where you're coming from, Ian. I must confess that I also share this ambition and would love to see the Order find a way to do it where everyone agrees that it is being done as safely as possible.
What about combatants wearing some kind of close-fitting eye protection (i.e., goggles) underneath the helm?
Sir James A:
Sigh... I love the Laurin Tournament.
I see safety tips on the spears, but not the swords. I'm short on time to research, but can you thrust with swords as well as polearms? I just can't begin to fathom it being safe to fight using a weapon that can fit through eye slots and will literally kill you in one mistake.
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