Main > The Armoury
Pells and physical training. WAS: Re: Armor stands
Aiden of Oreland:
--- Quote from: Sir Edward on 2014-04-21, 19:36:28 ---
--- Quote from: Sir Aiden on 2014-04-21, 19:14:13 ---HEMA only teaches you how to use a two handed sword right? I want to take WMA because it offers sword and shield, but if HEMA offers that too then I would gladly take that instead.
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No, you're being way too specific. :)
WMA/HEMA are both very broad categories. For instance, both encompass German, French, Italian, English, Spanish martial arts, ranging from unarmed, through all sorts of weapons. They're just a descriptive term for where/when these arts came from.
Getting more specific than that, for instance with the German Liechtenauer system that we do locally, it still covers unarmed, dagger, messer, single-hand sword, sword and buckler, longsword, staff, poleaxe, spear, mounted combat, and more.
For sword and buckler, both the German and Italian schools cover those a great deal. The German arts focus a lot on the longsword as a teaching weapon, but they don't stop there.
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Hmm... Well then, I might take HEMA, for I am not interested in learning about those modern combat skills, unless airsofting allowed for hand to hand lol. I am affraid I don't know how the school systems work. Do you go there and they progressively teach you all of this, or do you sign up for a coarse?
Now I understand that for all the equipment together (long sword and wears) it is about $1000. But will I need to purchase all the other stuff as I progress through the coarses?
By schools, do you mean multiple buildings or under one roof a HEMA group will teach you these schools of fighting techniques.
Sir Brian:
Lol it really isn't that structured...yet! ;)
Basically most 'schools' are a few people with a similar interest who purchase some of the available reference material that has been translated by other individuals and they 'rediscover' how it is all applied. Since the resurrection of these lost martial arts are far from complete it is very much an ongoing process. As classic students of fencing become involved there is more of a modernized sport flavor to it but essentially it is still a few folks trying to make heads and tails of interpreted and reinterpreted medieval and renaissance period manuscripts. The more established or renowned 'schools' are the ones whose primary instructor(s) were involved at the very beginning of resurrecting the arts. However when you get right down to it, both you and Nate could start your own 'school', all you need is some good resource material.
As for equipment you don't have to drop $1,000 to get started. Basic wooden wasters, a basic fencing mask and lacrosse gloves would be sufficient protection for drills and very light and slow duels. Decent and serviceable steel blades can be had for a low as $300 but you'll also have to increase your protection with elbow and forearm padding (lacrosse is typical), a decent padded fencing jacket or gambeson if you want to go at speed and hit with intent. ;)
scott2978:
--- Quote from: Ian on 2014-04-20, 20:21:55 ---You're missing the point Scott. It's not about living or dying by the sword, or having a better experience than someone else. It's about athleticism being integral to ANY sport.
It's about HEMA being the only martial art that doesn't seem to universally accept that traditional conditioning and strength training are vitally important to a martial art. MMA, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners don't live or die by their art. But they certainly don't eschew the ideals of physical fitness and conditioning as an integral part of their sport. It's just an observation. It's just less emphasized in HEMA than I've seen in any other martial art at the competitive level. The source documents address it and depict lots of scenes of men lifting heavy rocks and conditioning themselves, but these are the images that never seem to get reproduced by modern scholars for some reason, whether literally, or in the weight room. I don't get it. And yes, there are of course counterexamples of people who do take it very seriously as the athletic endeavor that it is, but it seems to be the exception. I think it would go a long way in getting the sport taken seriously in the mainstream as more than just a scholarly endeavor.
Sure, the guy just doing a martial art purely for fun is a different story, but that's not what I'm talking about here. This isn't a case of trying to tell people how to have their fun.
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I understand, the point of athleticism being integral to achievement in any martial art is valid. Which is not to say that a couch vegetable type person can't participate, but rather that to reach the pinacle of the art one's body must be in proper shape. I certainly concede the point.
What I was referring to is more the tendancy of some practitioners to go too far in their assessment, comparing their training styles and their experiences to that of a real medieval warrior. In reality the two are as far removed as a friendly paintball match and the Battle of Mogadishu. Perhaps ironically, most people will not be able to comprehend the totality of that difference either.
As always I hold you opinions in high regard Sir Ian,
Scott
Aiden of Oreland:
--- Quote from: Sir Brian on 2014-04-21, 23:03:14 ---Lol it really isn't that structured...yet! ;)
Basically most 'schools' are a few people with a similar interest who purchase some of the available reference material that has been translated by other individuals and they 'rediscover' how it is all applied. Since the resurrection of these lost martial arts are far from complete it is very much an ongoing process. As classic students of fencing become involved there is more of a modernized sport flavor to it but essentially it is still a few folks trying to make heads and tails of interpreted and reinterpreted medieval and renaissance period manuscripts. The more established or renowned 'schools' are the ones whose primary instructor(s) were involved at the very beginning of resurrecting the arts. However when you get right down to it, both you and Nate could start your own 'school', all you need is some good resource material.
As for equipment you don't have to drop $1,000 to get started. Basic wooden wasters, a basic fencing mask and lacrosse gloves would be sufficient protection for drills and very light and slow duels. Decent and serviceable steel blades can be had for a low as $300 but you'll also have to increase your protection with elbow and forearm padding (lacrosse is typical), a decent padded fencing jacket or gambeson if you want to go at speed and hit with intent. ;)
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Do you think it wise to go to the school first, learn the requirements, then purchase? The reason I said $1000 was because the a HEMA site showed the swords I needed and the equipment. I forget the site, the top of the page showed two men fighting in this gear. Oh, I thought HEMA had schools like fencing schools ??? Make my own school you, I don't know about schools, but I'm pushing for a chivalry club if that counts lol
Sir Edward:
(replying to two conversations in the thread)
To be fair, the competition scene is really only getting started in the WMA/HEMA world. Only in the last two years, I'd say, has it started to pick up, and we're seeing some fairly athletic people involved in it.
But I'd say a much larger proportion of practitioners are just hobbyists, or are coming at it from a more scholastic angle, where they want to do enough of it to know how it works, but don't plan to ever be "good" at it.
Over at VAF, while I was still taking classes there, most of my classmates were taking their fitness very seriously. Some of them made an arrangement to work together to be able to work up to doing 100 burpees daily, for instance.
Personally, I fall into the more casual hobbyist category most of the time, and then try to do a mad dash to build up endurance before large events like WMAW. :)
--- Quote from: Sir Aiden on 2014-04-22, 03:16:32 ---Do you think it wise to go to the school first, learn the requirements, then purchase? The reason I said $1000 was because the a HEMA site showed the swords I needed and the equipment. I forget the site, the top of the page showed two men fighting in this gear. Oh, I thought HEMA had schools like fencing schools ??? Make my own school you, I don't know about schools, but I'm pushing for a chivalry club if that counts lol
--- End quote ---
Yes, most "schools" start out as study-groups, or sword clubs, or something along those lines. There are very few paid, professional schools teaching this, but they do exist. A great example is VAF, where I took formal classes for Liechtenauer arts for about 8 or 9 years.
Almost everyone else starts small, with a couple of friends and a few books, and work through the material. It helps to interact with people who are already doing it, to correct some of the mistakes and bad habits you might pick up, but if you're doing the bulk of the learning yourself, then those interactions can be quick and effective.
And yes, for most activities in general, it's best to see what your local group recommends for equipment, before buying anything. This is harder to do if you're starting the group yourself, of course, but there's a wide range of gear that's usually acceptable in most places.
For starting out as a pure beginner, as Sir Brian mentioned, you'll do really well to start with lacrosse gloves, a 3-weapon fencing mask (they're the tougher version), and some sort of training sword. This will be enough for doing paired drills, and the like. The trainer can be a wooden waster (more period), or perhaps one of the synthetics from Purple Heart, which cost about the same, but are safer for hitting each other. Or you can go super cheap and even more safe, and start with a shinai. However, they're not as good of a teaching weapon in that they lack the weight and feel of a longsword, and don't have a proper crossguard (which is important for certain techniques).
The nice thing is that you can start cheap that way, and then pick out the more expensive gambesons and steel trainers after you start to get a feel for what you're doing.
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