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Author Topic: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight  (Read 31489 times)

Sir Nate

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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #30 on: 2014-03-07, 13:54:50 »
Tuetonics also fight for god at all costs. The have won battles that were against greater foes.

Just like Templars ;)

Templars had specific rules demanding that they don't leave the field of battle unless outnumbered - I forget specifics but maybe 3 to 1? Also ordered that they don't leave unless the Templar banner has fallen. They are not to be taken prisoner, they are to retreat or die.

They also had tactics for winning battles when they were outnumbered.
Remember that little trick bailan does when him and his men at arms are outnumbered protecting the castle.
Templars had tactics like that. But they would also reform so around there banner and fight until ordered to leave.
Another thing they would do is spread there men out and sort of wrap around the enemy forces, enclosing them.
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #31 on: 2014-03-07, 16:06:56 »
Templars had specific rules demanding that they don't leave the field of battle unless outnumbered - I forget specifics but maybe 3 to 1? Also ordered that they don't leave unless the Templar banner has fallen. They are not to be taken prisoner, they are to retreat or die.

Yes, 3-to-1 was the requirement before they were permitted to withdraw.
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #32 on: 2014-03-07, 16:57:49 »
Nate, I wouldn't look to Kingdom of Heaven for examples of Templar cavalry tactics, especially since the double horseshoe move would've been ineffective against that many opposing horsemen, as it was in the movie.  I'm assuming you're referring to Kerak, where he hoped to hold off the Muslims long enough for Jerusalem to arrive.  He only survived that because Imad knew who he was beforehand.  Remember, Balian slew his servant in the desert over a horse- Imad seemed confused when he translated that Balian was the baron of Ibelin (al'huakim Ibelin is the line); Balian could've taken him as a slave but he released him.  Imad returned the favor at Kerak. 

Much of the depiction of the sequence events at Reynald of Chatillon’s stronghold of Kerak is not true to history. Saladin did besiege Kerak unsuccessfully, but in 1183, well before the time frame of the movie. According to legend, there was a wedding going on during the Muslim bombardment of the walls. Saladin found out which tower the newlyweds were in, and instructed his soldiers not to bombard it. When King Baldwin IV brought his army down from Jerusalem to contest the siege, Saladin withdrew before they arrived. The desperate ploy by Balian and his men-at-arms never occurred during the siege of Kerak and was something of a rare event for that period in time.  Muslim commanders tended to avoid such engagements as the heavily armored Western knights were feared for their devastating massed charges.
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Sir Nate

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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #33 on: 2014-03-08, 03:44:11 »
I just got Ninja'd by william.
Ya saladin was very merciful.
Did you know the scene were saladin cuts chatillons throat for drinking the water actually happened?
Wait did you read your second paragraph from something? Its almost word for word with something I read a while back.

Well I still think a Templar would win.
Say there both having a bad day. And they cross paths, and the Teutonic says "excuse me" rudely.... And the Templars says "thats it!" And etc.
 
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Sir Nate

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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #34 on: 2014-03-08, 03:46:29 »
I feel like this argument is begin to hit a wall.
But honestly on what has been said before so many factor go into 1 on 1 combat, we don't know.
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #35 on: 2014-03-08, 03:53:54 »
If they were both to fight to the death I think it'd just end up being a 50/50 chance. Both had gear that were equal, both equally trained and both have witnessed and shared events together. One could say them the same, just one bares the red cross and the other the black. Both had about the same beliefs. A reason some may lean toward Templars is because they are more "popular".
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Sir Nate

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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #36 on: 2014-03-08, 04:03:44 »
If they were both to fight to the death I think it'd just end up being a 50/50 chance. Both had gear that were equal, both equally trained and both have witnessed and shared events together. One could say them the same, just one bares the red cross and the other the black. Both had about the same beliefs. A reason some may lean toward Templars is because they are more "popular".

No actually I wouldnt say they are equal in everything, its more than just a symbol that teutonics and Templars follow.
Its like Theres pizza, and them there is chicago style pizza. Both have cheese, sauce and crust/bread. Every pizza has different toppings. Chicago style may also only take 3 slices to fill a stomach while normal pizza takes a box.
Both are pizza, but both vary. A chicago pepperoni pizza may beat a normal slice of pizza with veggies.
Crusading groups are just like pizza.
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #37 on: 2014-03-08, 04:12:06 »
You only say that because you never tasted the other pizza. Just to prove that you know only about templars and nothing of the teutonic order which brings you to support one group without the background knowledge of the other. All you see them as is a group of mercenaries.
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #38 on: 2014-03-08, 06:42:35 »
Great, now I want pizza. :P Mmmmmm....warrior-monk pizza.
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #39 on: 2014-03-08, 15:33:52 »
Chicago or Italian?
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #40 on: 2014-03-08, 16:12:05 »
The Templars were around first. When the Teutonics were founded, they were based off of the Templars. If I remember right, Teutonics were also both subject to the Pope (Sir Nathan, can you confirm?) along with the Hospitalers too. So at any given time, their equipment and training was similar. Some kind of political differences, but similar. At their height, the Templars had a massive sphere of power and influence - as did the Teutonics - but at least a century or two apart.

I remember a mentioning that they fought together at the fall of Acre, but I don't remember any mention of them fighting each other. Most of my interest is Templar (I have maybe 1 or 2 Teutonic books, and 8 or 10 Templar books) ... I just absorb a bit of Teutonic here and there from Sir Nathan. :)
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #41 on: 2014-03-10, 14:32:42 »
Italian of course; Chicago pizza is just nasty.  lol

Nate, I have read that reference so many times I can almost recite it verbatim.
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #42 on: 2014-03-11, 19:12:48 »
The Templars were around first. When the Teutonics were founded, they were based off of the Templars. If I remember right, Teutonics were also both subject to the Pope (Sir Nathan, can you confirm?) along with the Hospitalers too. So at any given time, their equipment and training was similar. Some kind of political differences, but similar. At their height, the Templars had a massive sphere of power and influence - as did the Teutonics - but at least a century or two apart.

I remember a mentioning that they fought together at the fall of Acre, but I don't remember any mention of them fighting each other. Most of my interest is Templar (I have maybe 1 or 2 Teutonic books, and 8 or 10 Templar books) ... I just absorb a bit of Teutonic here and there from Sir Nathan. :)
I haven't seen Sir Nathan on in a few days
I have about 3 Templar books. Ive read about 9.
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #43 on: 2014-03-11, 19:57:24 »
poor Nathan's probably bogged down with midterms
I like how nobody even considered introducing the Hospitallers into the fight. They are sooo under-appreciated.
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Re: Argument: Templar vs Teutonic Knight
« Reply #44 on: 2014-03-11, 21:07:43 »
poor Nathan's probably bogged down with midterms
I like how nobody even considered introducing the Hospitallers into the fight. They are sooo under-appreciated.

They were mentioned, and they got more "maille" in one pinky then the templars and teutonics combined lol. But Hospitallers were more for defending hospitals I think then actually getting out there to fight, most of the time.
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