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Author Topic: 13th and 14th c. Kits  (Read 42925 times)

Sir James A

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #30 on: 2014-02-23, 18:54:56 »
Custom is usually cheaper - if you do it yourself

Custom is usually more expensive - if you commission it from someone else

Very important distinction :)

If you want to make a gambeson / arming garment, you can buy a pattern for it for about $25 (Charles de Blois Pourpoint).

Surcoats are pretty easy - I'd wager there are some patterns floating around.

This is what i was given when discussing my heraldic design. The only thing I don't know how to do is put in an inside liner that is going to be green. http://cottesimple.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/draft_and_sew_a_surcotte.pdf

I almost forgot!! Im going to need a good, double wrapped, belt for my kit! I know by-the-sword has one that is pretty nice. I am planning to by Iron cross pewters for it. I want this because my heraldry has 3 Iron crosses on a chief. This is the belt: http://www.by-the-sword.com/p-5646-double-wrapped-sword-belt-200208.aspx

Use that pattern, the lady who wrote it is very good.

For an inside green liner, you just make "two" surcoats. Green is inside, other color outside. You're lining it, so instead of sewing 2 pieces together at the sides, you're sewing 4. It's just like two pieces of paper over top of each other.
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Aiden of Oreland

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #31 on: 2014-02-23, 19:46:49 »
Custom is usually cheaper - if you do it yourself

Custom is usually more expensive - if you commission it from someone else

Very important distinction :)

If you want to make a gambeson / arming garment, you can buy a pattern for it for about $25 (Charles de Blois Pourpoint).

Surcoats are pretty easy - I'd wager there are some patterns floating around.

This is what i was given when discussing my heraldic design. The only thing I don't know how to do is put in an inside liner that is going to be green. http://cottesimple.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/draft_and_sew_a_surcotte.pdf

I almost forgot!! Im going to need a good, double wrapped, belt for my kit! I know by-the-sword has one that is pretty nice. I am planning to by Iron cross pewters for it. I want this because my heraldry has 3 Iron crosses on a chief. This is the belt: http://www.by-the-sword.com/p-5646-double-wrapped-sword-belt-200208.aspx

Use that pattern, the lady who wrote it is very good.

For an inside green liner, you just make "two" surcoats. Green is inside, other color outside. You're lining it, so instead of sewing 2 pieces together at the sides, you're sewing 4. It's just like two pieces of paper over top of each other.

Gotchya, and how would you suggest I do the designs on the surcoat. It will most likely have three white formee crosses on a green chief, and under that will be a green chevron. Should I add them after I complete my surcoat? Also would you suggest that I use heavy linen on the outside and a softer one on the inside for my maille. From the 2 surcoats my brother has perchased this seemed to be the case.
« Last Edit: 2014-02-24, 06:16:58 by Sir Aiden »
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scott2978

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #32 on: 2014-02-23, 23:01:30 »
If you want some help sewing period garments and have $35 to spend, get yourself a copy of The Medieval Tailor's Assistant. It gives you a ton of patterns and instructions on creating common medieval garments for kits from 1200 through 1500. It's very useful.

What year and country is your kit, and how historical are you trying to be?


Aiden of Oreland

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #33 on: 2014-02-24, 01:17:07 »
If you want some help sewing period garments and have $35 to spend, get yourself a copy of The Medieval Tailor's Assistant. It gives you a ton of patterns and instructions on creating common medieval garments for kits from 1200 through 1500. It's very useful.

What year and country is your kit, and how historical are you trying to be?



Medieval Tailors you say? I'll check that out. Late c. 13th Germany.  I do want to be as historicaly accurate as possible.

In was looking at some flared Poleyns for my kit from windrose armory and they look pretty nice. They are also stainless steel which is a bonus because I never really have time to clean armor with high maintenance. I was also thinking of getting the matching elbows. Do Do you think I need cuisses for them? Also got me thinking that if I want to really go far and beyond with this kit i could get an early, simple, coat of plates which would be nice. As for the helmet, im set on that royal oak dargen helm. i cant find a finer helm on the market for a late 13th c. But im going to have to crack open the piggy bank after a few years for that. Oh! And prick spurs to complement my kit! I think this kit is going to end up being a $2000 dollar investment!(including helm). Not to bad. Just going to have to get an albion squire line sword. Have this kit for maybe 3-5 years then move onto my late 14th c. SCA kit.
« Last Edit: 2014-02-24, 06:38:54 by Sir Aiden »
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Mike W.

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #34 on: 2014-02-24, 17:08:58 »
I found this doing a quick google search...

*** Web Link Removed due to potential copyright infringement *** - Sir Brian

If you don't mind reading off a computer screen, it should help a lot.
« Last Edit: 2014-02-25, 08:19:00 by Sir Brian »
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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #35 on: 2014-02-24, 20:09:56 »
I found this doing a quick google search...

*** Web Link Removed due to potential copyright infringement *** - Sir Brian

If you don't mind reading off a computer screen, it should help a lot.

Wow! This is a killer find! I'll be using my phone. I never use a computer lol. I'll definitly take some time later to look over this!
« Last Edit: 2014-02-25, 08:19:39 by Sir Brian »
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Sir Patrick

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #36 on: 2014-02-24, 21:03:29 »
Nice find!  Will definitely use that resource.
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Stanislaw

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #37 on: 2014-02-25, 02:06:08 »
I found this doing a quick google search...

*** Web Link Removed due to potential copyright infringement *** - Sir Brian

If you don't mind reading off a computer screen, it should help a lot.

Wowee! Great find for all of us! This'll help me work out the stitching with the Bocksten Tunic I'm making.
« Last Edit: 2014-02-25, 08:20:03 by Sir Brian »
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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #38 on: 2014-02-25, 08:29:36 »
Just a reminder to everyone that this is a public forum and everyone should be careful that the web links you post are not potential copyright infringements as that reference source was. The first page had the copyright information clearly annotated so please be more cognizant of this before posting such links!

Besides we don't want the FEDS sniffing around our forum, they might find the bodies we have stashed. ;)
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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #39 on: 2014-02-25, 14:30:51 »

I must have missed that. Yes, we need to be very careful about sharing copyrighted works!
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Mike W.

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #40 on: 2014-02-25, 15:17:10 »
Ah yes, very well. My apologies for my negligence.
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Mike W.

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #41 on: 2014-02-25, 15:18:45 »
In that case, here's another legal collection of web links I found awhile ago.
http://www.modaruniversity.org/briana/Briana3.htm
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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #42 on: 2014-02-25, 20:00:34 »
Ah yes, we don't want the gaurds to go lookig around here lol. Anyway, would any one know where to get an appropriate belt for my time period? As I said before, I saw the one on by-the-sword. But besides that one I can't seem to find a better belt. I was also thinking of placing formee crosses all along the belt, if anyone know where to get those.
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scott2978

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #43 on: 2014-02-26, 03:42:41 »
Late 13th century knights often wore two belts outside their surcoat, one to cinch the surcoat and and another to hang a sword. The former could be fairly simple, and in at least some effigies of 1250-1300 it's just a braided cord. The latter was usually more decorated, but still austere by 14th century standards, with tooling as much as brass mounts. Pitty there aren't more etant German effigies. At this point in history, not much differed between England, France and Germany armor-fashion-wise though, except that England had some cooler looking surcoats around 1250.  It's not until the age of plate that you start to see a gap in technology, where the Germans notoriously hold on to the older styles longer than anyone else. Anyway here's a good illustration of a period English setup:

 

The most common belts in this period (meaning all belts, not necesarilly sword belts) were made of leather and average about 1" wide. There were wider and skinnier ones, but very wide belts (more than 1.5" wide) were for generally for women, with the exception of sword belts, which were mostly 1.5" wide or so.

Mid to late 13th century buckles were of brass. Around 1250 the common style was a D shape, either with or without a tongue, sometimes lobed with little "blobs" along the curve of the D. The buckle could be attached to the belt either by means of a brass plate that was riveted to the leather, or by running the leather through the buckle to hold the buckle on. This style of buckle lasted until the 15th century. The other end of the belt strap had a brass weight attached to it, commonly referred to today as a strap end. Throughout the medieval period strap ends changed a lot from place to place and by the wearer's personal tastes, but a common example would be about 3-5" long and as wide as the belt, tapering to some simple geometric shape or animal shape or something at the end. Even this early, belts commonly had some brass mounts riveted to them as well. Mostly they were simple geometric shapes or animals, they became more fancy over the centuries. These tiny brass fittings had one or more posts on the back for attaching them to the belt. A hole was punched in the leather, the post pushed through, a square washer of brass sheet was set down over the post, and finally the end of the post was peened to mushroom it, fixing the mount in place. In the late 13th century a knightly belt might have a mount every few inches, or more if the knight was wealthy. Start by choosing a buckle and strap end that are about 1" wide or slightly wider, then choose one or two styles of simple mounts and buy a total of 10 - 12 of them. The leather strap will need to be long enough to wrap all the way around you with all your gear on at least 1.5 times. Keep this length in mind if you decide to just order a belt from somewhere.

Here's a drawing of several 13th century buckles: http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ceejays_site/pages/bucklepage10.htm

As with most things about armor, the really good stuff isn't cheap. But a really nice belt hand made by yourself is worth more than a mediocre one bought cheap.

At the top end of sword belt/scabbard quality lies DBK Custom. You will not find a finer sword scabbard produced anywhere in the world. http://www.dbkcustomswords.com/index.html

At the other end you make your own, with parts from a place like Armor and Castings, Gaukler, Quiet Press, or Lorifactor. The leather can be vegetable tanned from Tandy, along with a bottle of dye and a couple simple tools. Veg tanned is not exactly period, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

There are lots of places you can get the parts to make a really nice period belt, let me know if you want to go this route and I can help out more.

Scott
« Last Edit: 2014-02-26, 03:52:05 by scott2978 »

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Re: 13th and 14th c. Kits
« Reply #44 on: 2014-02-26, 04:33:07 »
That actually helps me out a lot too, Scott, thanks for the info! I'm planning on making a belt for my soft kit soon. I assume the details regarding strap ends and mounts are true for civil belts as well (by which I mean, not sword belts)?
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