Main > The Armoury
Padded Gambeson
Sir James A:
--- Quote from: Ian on 2014-01-04, 02:26:59 ---
--- Quote from: Sir Humphrey on 2014-01-04, 01:30:26 ---Thanks Ian and Douglas,
Is the issue just shaping the garment to fit the hips and to sinch up tight just above the hips so it will take the weight? If so, I can make it do that.
If not pointed to the gambeson, would one have to have a belt or some other device under the gambeson to hold up mail chauses?
--- End quote ---
You could make it do that, but there's no evidence of a garment that did that that early in the century.
The short answer to your other question is no one really knows! :) Joe Metz uses one of the revival clothing vest garments (revival calls it a pourpoint, but it's really not). You could also use a belt, but it would be much less comfortable.
--- End quote ---
I think it's still correctly called a pourpoint, at least for us. It's based off a civilian clothing garment called a pourpoint, there's just no evidence yet as to it being used with armor.
The most important part is that nobody really knows, so it's hard to say what is right or wrong. :)
Ian:
It's not quilted, so it cannot be considered a pourpoint. Revival's using an outdated mistranslated version of the word to call their garment a pourpoint.
Sir Humphrey:
Ian, I am suspect of several of the garments they have listed. I decided I should not trust their products at face value when I saw this. Ren Fair tights for $49.95 listed as "simple hose." http://www.revivalclothing.com/simplemedievalhose.aspx
Another reason to make your own stuff if you have the capability.
Ian:
--- Quote from: Sir Humphrey on 2014-01-06, 00:46:32 ---Ian, I am suspect of several of the garments they have listed. I decided I should not trust their products at face value when I saw this. Ren Fair tights for $49.95 listed as "simple hose." http://www.revivalclothing.com/simplemedievalhose.aspx
Another reason to make your own stuff if you have the capability.
--- End quote ---
Yeah I've been burned by trusting them in the past... their tie on garters that I used as trim are made from rayon and sold at Joann's (I was in the store and saw a roll of it and my jaw hit the floor), but on their website they're 'based on contemporary artwork.' That bycocket I made used that trim, now I've got to take it off, as I'm fairly certain synthetic fabrics aren't contemporary for the 14th century.
There's also no evidence for a vest-like garment to hang your hose from in the 14thc, there are 15th century examples of such a garment, but they imply both in the name and reinforce it with sketches at the bottom that it's a 14th century garment.
For an interesting discussion on the real meaning behind the word pourpoint read this:
This is from a thread on the Armour Archive written by Tasha Dandelion Kelly, who's opinion on medieval garments I trust very much.
--- Quote ---I used to believe this as well until quite recently, because it seems to make so much sense, but actually the word pourpoint stems from a Latin term -- perpunctus or prepunctus (one of which means "pierced", the other "pierced through"; not sure which is which without digging through my research). Etymologically, it's unclear which prefix is technically correct, because the French language has a history of interchanging them somewhat as the language evolved.
The meaning of the word pourpoint does not have anything to do with something being tight-fitting for the purpose of pointing armour to it, i.e. "for pointing" -- as is commonly believed and perpetuated by many knowledgeable folks, including published historians. What it refers to, in fact, is that the garment is quilted (i.e. "pierced through"). This is how French historians interpret this word, and I'm going to take their word for it, as they know their language better than native English speakers do.
I'm sure that the concept of "pointing" also derives from the same Latin root, as it does indeed involve piercing something. Just the same, it's a coincidence and a modern interpretive twist to the original meaning of the period word pourpoint.
Pourpoints are padded, quilted garments, plain and simple. It does not matter if they're worn under the armour or over the armour.
If you're going to point armour to a tight-fitting garment, I'd just call it an arming garment or arming cotte, or something like that.... unless it's quilted, in which case, go ahead and call it a pourpoint.
--- End quote ---
Sir James A:
Interesting, I never saw that post from her. My "pourpoint" from revival is lightly padded, but not quilted. Hmm.
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