"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect."
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Author Topic: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."  (Read 18551 times)

Sir Nate

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #15 on: 2013-11-03, 03:29:40 »
Very 'Ender Wiggins' solution here.

Notice how he starts fighting in their mind first? This isn't his first fight, it won't be his last, and he lets them know that.



I read Enders game, its now one of my favorite books, because he really thinks like I do. Or similar.  It was a great read, I hope the movie is good. I havent seen jack reacher yet.
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SirNathanQ

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #16 on: 2013-11-03, 09:56:29 »
The trick to actual fighting, I've seen, is really about having the guts to take and to dish out damage, and (especially with multiple opponents) to make a calculated explosion of violence.
Simple steps
1. Decide how to hit opponent.
2. Follow through. If the hit landed, proceed to step 3. If not, defend counters and go back to step 1.
3. Hit opponent again. If opponent still has the capacity to harm you, repeat. If not, the fight is over.
(now make all of this take place in a matter of seconds, and you get the gist of it) 
"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect." -Carl Von Clausewitz
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Sir Brian

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #17 on: 2013-11-03, 10:48:37 »
Yes well put sir brian.
It opened my eyes because I realized how easily I could be subdued. But the person was almost twice my size, and he was at the time a little slow. He didnt really fight fairly though considering all he liked to do was show people he was stronger. Just a bully in the end
Size is rarely relevant, unless there is a vast disparity such as 100 pound woman fighting a 250 pound man and even then the size variance is irrelevant if the woman is highly skilled and the man is unskilled. Mass can be manipulated with leverage. Since you are dealing with a bully he is complacent and overconfident in his greater size. The next time he wants to use you as a prop to reaffirm his 'supremacy' in your social circle - break something on him. You will have to pay the consequences but you will establish yourself as someone definitely not to mess with.

You and your brother can practice on each other if you do not know how to escape from the basic headlock, be careful and practice slowly to perfect your technique.

Assuming the bully has your head in the classic headlock with you bent over at the waist and your head approximately around his waist. You can break his nose by reaching up to his face and planting your palm on his cheek bone then clasp his nose and make a fist. It will cause excruciating pain and if your hands are strong enough will break his nose. Or you can place the pinky finger edge of your hand under the tip of his nose and press upwards. His head will go back and you tell him to let go of your head and you'll let go. When he releases your head  you grab the back of his knee and throw him onto his back. While he is stunned stomp on his groin. However the fastest and most damaging counter to a headlock is when he has your body bent over with your head at his hip you adjust your stance by taking a step slightly forward then do the nut cracker on him. That is three hard punches with both fists, one from the front and one from the back with his gonads being smashed between them. He will let go and if he doesn't collapse you can then grab the nearest leg and lift and push him down.
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Thorsteinn

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #18 on: 2013-11-03, 19:29:17 »
While mass, strength, size, and leverage is actually very important in a fight (we have a 6' 6" new fighter who hits like a freight train), especially if no great disparity in skill exists, skill can still be paramount.

I once told a student who didn't believe this that I was going to close my eyes, place my hand on her shoulder, and at the word 'go' I would submit her without ever opening my eye's. While I'm stronger, and slightly taller, she was heavier & a little faster. Yet I still succeeded even though she saw everything I did.
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Lord Dane

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #19 on: 2013-11-06, 16:37:10 »
TRUE fighting is about taking in ALL aspects of your opponent's skills and capabilities. What you cannot gauge is their willingness to do anything (beyond rules, morals, and laws). I play it safe and avoid it. But when you can't avoid it, CONFRONT THE THREAT with absolute focus & resolution on ridding yourself of the threat. Better yourself by knowing what YOU would do makes it easier to do in a fight than worrying about what your opponent will. Size up your opponent based upon what you KNOW not think. Thinking is for when you have time to do it.

Knowing is what makes you prepared for it. KNOW what you will do before hand and reaction will guide you when faced with it (by recognition). Train yourself to be better and do it repetitiously. Remember, repetition instills reaction. That makes you the threat. Willingness to commit to your own actions without second guessing yourself instills confidence.   
« Last Edit: 2013-11-08, 16:25:20 by Lord Dane »
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Sir James A

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #20 on: 2013-11-06, 20:37:36 »
TRUE fighting as about taking in ALL aspects of your opponent(s) skills and capabilities. What you cannot gauge is their willingness to DO anything (beyond rules, morals, and laws). I play it safe and avoid it. But when you can't avoid it, CONFRONT THE THREAT with absolute focus resolution on ridding yourself of the threat. Better yourself by knowing what YOU would do makes it easier to do in a fight than worrying about what your opponent will. Size up your opponent based upon what you KNOW not think. Thinking is for when you have time to do it.

Knowing is what makes you prepared for it. KNOW what you will do before hand and reaction will guide you when faced with it (by recognition). Train yourself to be better and do it repetitiously. Remember, repetition instills reaction. That makes you the threat. Willingness to commit to your own actions without second guessing yourself instills confidence.   

Bolding mine, reminds me of the saying "You don't rise to your expectations, you fall to the level of your training".
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Don Jorge

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #21 on: 2013-11-06, 21:24:14 »
I haven't had to be in a fight since Middle School? The advantages of being 6'5...I didn't feel confident enough in a fight until College when I did competitive Judo...from that point on I have feared no man in a fight...training and size make me very hard to beat...It also helps to spar twice a day every day for a couple of years...you are not afraid of getting hit or thrown or tasting your own blood..

Fear is the biggest thing to overcome in fighting...

Sir William

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #22 on: 2013-11-06, 21:41:25 »
Fear is the biggest thing to overcome in fighting...

I think that's probably the one thing that is hardest to combat; the inner fear that occurs just before a fight.  It doesn't make you a scaredy-cat or wimp; just about everyone knows this feeling and has had it at some point in their lives; don't be afraid to lose, don't be afraid to fight - just do it.  It is way easier than it sounds, until you throw your first punch (and/or take your first punch).

I like this, Dane-
Quote
Willingness to commit to your own actions without second guessing yourself instills confidence.
- it is well said.

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Sir Gerard de Rodes

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #23 on: 2013-11-06, 22:47:54 »
Within re-enactment circles here in the U.K. as soon as a youngster (male or female) shows an interest in combat they are usually given the chance to start with the basics under the supervision of an experienced combatant.
There are a few umbrella groups that set standards and guidelines for re-enactment combat all based loosely around a mixture of W.M.A. techniques, show fighting techniques and broader re-enactment standards.
These training sessions usually take place in the form of squire training exercises, and quite often in front of the M.O.P.s as a part of our event/show.

The first and most important things they learn are; acceptable target areas, correct attack techniques, pulling blows, and blocking/defense.

Of course it is of paramount importance that they learn how to "play" safely, but we all know that in such activities as we undertake, accidents happen.
When accidents happen ( as long as they are not too serious ) there are two main results;
 1, The new combatant learns a valuable lesson by the mistake,
 2, we all get to have a laugh about it and get chance to say " well you have at last bled/bruised for your hobby".

Their experience then goes into the oral history of the group and takes on an almost legendary status  :D

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #24 on: 2013-11-06, 23:37:38 »
I will be putting this to the test this weekend. Teaching youth will be interesting, local high school group/club.  in the past the statement held true, they could not fight tenaciously but they can flail like loons and try to hit your hands repeatedly. an other problem with youth is over confidence or lack of confidence, one or the other always seems to be their down fall. perhaps this applies to tenacious fighting in some way, the under confident ones seem to retreat so they fit that, but the over confident, although they get hurt and loose every engagement, attempt to fight with some tenacity I suppose.

anyway will have results when the weekend is over.

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #25 on: 2013-11-07, 04:31:22 »
No matter how much you train, it can only give you technique. Every man you fight is different. A new challenge and are unpredictable. Keep a calm head the whole time. Best advice is to be prepared for anything and have fast reflexes. Don't exert all your energy to defeat them. Most of all stand up for yourself. The younge learn through experience, are not as experienced as elders who are experienced. Thats why they must mostly train their mind. As Papa Wallace said to William Wallace, "Oh, I know you can fight. But it's our wits that make us men. Want to know whats ridiculous. If someone in school decides to beat your guts out and you defend thy self you are equally as guilty in the eyes of the school board. Thus why bullies can get away with anything. Sometimes you have to prove you will not tolerate them. But as I usually say "raise the shield, not the sword"
-"I raise not the sword, but the shield."-Aiden Max

Lord Dane

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #26 on: 2013-11-08, 16:27:34 »
I haven't had to be in a fight since Middle School? The advantages of being 6'5...I didn't feel confident enough in a fight until College when I did competitive Judo...from that point on I have feared no man in a fight...training and size make me very hard to beat...It also helps to spar twice a day every day for a couple of years...you are not afraid of getting hit or thrown or tasting your own blood..

Fear is the biggest thing to overcome in fighting...

Beg to differ. When it comes to fighting, STUPIDITY is the hardest thing to overcome. It is how you avoid it that makes people fumble over your inability to decide actions to take.   
« Last Edit: 2013-11-08, 16:29:46 by Lord Dane »
"Fides, Honos, Prudentia, Sapiencia" (Faith, Honor, Prudence, Wisdom)
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Lord Dane

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #27 on: 2013-11-08, 16:37:34 »
No matter how much you train, it can only give you technique. Every man you fight is different. A new challenge and are unpredictable. Keep a calm head the whole time. Best advice is to be prepared for anything and have fast reflexes. Don't exert all your energy to defeat them. Most of all stand up for yourself. The younge learn through experience, are not as experienced as elders who are experienced. Thats why they must mostly train their mind. As Papa Wallace said to William Wallace, "Oh, I know you can fight. But it's our wits that make us men. Want to know whats ridiculous. If someone in school decides to beat your guts out and you defend thy self you are equally as guilty in the eyes of the school board. Thus why bullies can get away with anything. Sometimes you have to prove you will not tolerate them. But as I usually say "raise the shield, not the sword"

Protect yourself first no matter what Aiden. Grown ups have just as much stupidity in their decision making as to who & what course is right as kids do. Inexperience does not make one less able to think comparative to those with experience thinking they know what is the right course of action. Use your common sense especially when others lack it. Do what is right by you. Listen to yourself but take in what others say in the process. You learn by other's logic as much as by their stupidity.

Good appproach: "Raise your shield ... (for defense) but then strike with it (to attack)." (If they look for you to draw your sword, they will be unfocused on the real threat). Fight smart. :)
"Fides, Honos, Prudentia, Sapiencia" (Faith, Honor, Prudence, Wisdom)
"Fiat justitia ruat caelum" (Let justice be done)

Sir Nate

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #28 on: 2013-11-09, 02:15:22 »
When your getting mugged!, he has a knife in the alyway
you Pick The Metal Trash Can, Use the lid as a Shield- and the trash can itself as a Hammer

He has  a pocket knife.
You have a giant hammer and a shield.
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Aiden of Oreland

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Re: "No youth can fight tenaciously..."
« Reply #29 on: 2013-11-10, 04:46:44 »
No matter how much you train, it can only give you technique. Every man you fight is different. A new challenge and are unpredictable. Keep a calm head the whole time. Best advice is to be prepared for anything and have fast reflexes. Don't exert all your energy to defeat them. Most of all stand up for yourself. The younge learn through experience, are not as experienced as elders who are experienced. Thats why they must mostly train their mind. As Papa Wallace said to William Wallace, "Oh, I know you can fight. But it's our wits that make us men. Want to know whats ridiculous. If someone in school decides to beat your guts out and you defend thy self you are equally as guilty in the eyes of the school board. Thus why bullies can get away with anything. Sometimes you have to prove you will not tolerate them. But as I usually say "raise the shield, not the sword"

Protect yourself first no matter what Aiden. Grown ups have just as much stupidity in their decision making as to who & what course is right as kids do. Inexperience does not make one less able to think comparative to those with experience thinking they know what is the right course of action. Use your common sense especially when others lack it. Do what is right by you. Listen to yourself but take in what others say in the process. You learn by other's logic as much as by their stupidity.

Good appproach: "Raise your shield ... (for defense) but then strike with it (to attack)." (If they look for you to draw your sword, they will be unfocused on the real threat). Fight smart. :)

Thank you for liking my reference, I have always liked using it. Thus why it is under my signature thingy. "I raise not the sword but the shield, for sometimes the greatest offence is the best defense"-Aiden. Well ya, by experience i meant in skill as a fighter and know your stuff and to fight smart. Not go in as a brute and just assume you are the greastest fighter. So ya basicaly I meant what you said. I just have a poor choice of words. Forgive me.
-"I raise not the sword, but the shield."-Aiden Max