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Author Topic: 12th/13th century riveted mail hauberk and chausses - Knight's Templar kit  (Read 21401 times)

B. Patricius

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While Icefalcon is a distributor of imported Indian maille (just like GDFB and all the other mass-market maille providers), Erik D. Schmid is nothing of the sort.  He makes his stuff the way it was done in period, and reproduces the most historically accurate maille this side of the Late Middle Ages.  Please don't mistake Erik's work for what the Indian maille producers are churning out.
ummm erics is as close to perfect as you can get. its not Indian mail, he draws his own wire etc. Indian mail now is loosely based off what forth armoury gave them to work with.... before they sold his copies to other companies. noneof there rivets are close to being right. wedge or rivet, it still looks differently
Sir Ian and Sir Wolf,

I fear my lack of clarity clouded my intentions.  I meant how Erik taught India how to mass-produce mail, not that his skills aren't adequate on their own.  Truly, his mail is a bar to hold all other mail against. 

And in that, I understand where the compromises of business came in with the India mail, and for it's quality, I'm not a fan.  In that, I say no offense to Ice for distributing it, and to Erik for helping India to make the mail to begin with, it's just not for me.
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Lord Dane

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Is that the same Erik who owns WinterTreeCrafts in VT??
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B. Patricius

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I don't know personally.  I only know of Erik D Schmid because of the armourarchive, his writings on creating tools for making mail, his analysis on period mail, and his own workings within mail.  Basically as they rightly defended him, Erik D Schmid is THE MAN when it comes to modern day reproductions in mail.  He also helped, if I remember correctly from what I've read at the AA, to streamline and create the process that India makes their mail from, kind of the "project lead" in a way.
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Sir Wolf

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no it is not.

B. Patricius

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Greetings everyone

Three weeks in - phase two

so I finally have some form of camera now.  Long story short that was fun and it's nice, even if it is on my phone, to finally have something to take pictures with so Sir Wolf doesn't ban me! :D

as of late, I have been coiling more pounds of wire into coils, cutting them, and getting them "lapped" as I have come to call the overlapping to get the ends for riveting.  I've also done some experiments with different rings to see what works and what doesn't for my research.

Here's what I have to date:
first off, I need to say that bar none these tools are worth their weight in gold!

and here's why:

not only are they good for the mail weaving process itself but they are also great for lapping the ends of the rings!
here's how I do this, and I'll post up a video as well showing the process as a whole later:


and on to the experiments, without annealing, the lapped rings are nigh impossible to smush, and yes, that's the best word I can use to describe it.  Basically, as one hammers, the end underneath walks and never wants to stay under:
I tried this four different times with the same results no matter what I did with the hammer or anvil, or placement of the rings.

for the non-annealed rings, the best way to hammer them is to do it before they are lapped which makes what appears to be a nice ring afterwards:


BUT
they don't exactly like to smush together:
nor is it very uniform in smushing :D (I was actually wondering if I took a profile shot of the lap and had to double check this!)

and here, are my good ones:
these were annealed actually on my bbq in Havasu not with my torch as I forgot that when I went for the weekend.  The annealed ones with the torch look even better.


and here is what they look like in the profile view of the lapped joint

much better :D

so what did I learn?  pretty much what I've found from others remains to be true.  Patience is a virtue and if one doesn't skimp on any of the steps, the result is very rewarding.  To put my use down as efficiently as I can:
after coils are cut into rings I overlap the rings with my vicegrip
I then anneal them to an orange, almost orange-yellow color
I hit the ring two-four times on one side -  only on the lap, with a 32oz mallet
I flip the ring over and do that again on that side to give it a uniform finish
I then clip the edges if needed, followed by filing if needed.

and how long does this take?  well you'd be surprised.  I can anneal up to 250 rings at once with the rig I have set up now with my torch, and they cool within a couple hours but I wait until the next day.  I can hammer out probably more than that in an hour and it's quite relaxing and a great way to relieve pent up stress too.  I love the sound! 

So all in all this phase of the work isn't all that tough at all and quite fun.
when you combine this with the punched rings I'm going to purchase, it won't be too long at all until I have all my rings made, and then on to the fun part  8)

weaving my mail, then riveting the rings after it's all woven  :o
here's a teaser I made with some galvanized butted rings to stand in for the punched rings, and I didn't rivet it.


I'll be sure to post up the video about how I overlap my rings once my phone charges back up again

YIS
B. Patricius
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Sir Edward

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Wow, good luck! I made my own hauberk, but with just simple butt-links, and it took quite a long time. I didn't go through the whole hammering, riveting,  annealing, etc. I can't wait to see how it turns out.
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Ian

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I cannot wait to see this completed!  If you stay the course this will be one heck of a hauberk when it's all done!
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Sir Brian

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WOW! You are by far the better and more patient armorer than I could ever be good B. Patricius!  :)
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Sir James A

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I cannot wait to see this completed!  If you stay the course this will be one heck of a hauberk when it's all done!

Seconded! And glad to see you got a camera. Perhaps Sir Wolf will lower the ban stick for a while.
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Sir Wolf

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i put it on a lanyard so it's never far........ lol

nice.

B. Patricius

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Guys,  Non nobis Domine, non nobis

thankyou so much for your support.  And yes Sir Wolf, I shall keep the enemy forces of the "Ban lanyard" at bay now, insomuch as my phone/camera doesn't die on me again!  ;D

Sir Edward, Sir Ian, Sir James - thank you from the bottom of my heart.  I was actually thinking about this last week.  "They're probably curious about my mail endeavors and may even be worried I've fallen through.  Just wait til this weekend and I can finally show something!"  I'm hoping it will do justice.  Looking at the rings, by themselves, it's hard not to critique them.  But in doing that, nothing will get done. 

Sir Brian, it's funny that you admire my patience and I thank you for your compliment.  It's funny really, but I take out my lack of patience and any and all frustrations when I'm smushing those rings!  ;D  It's gotten to a point where when I take a break, I have to play Assassin's Creed 1, or work on something else of my kit, just to constantly feel I'm making progress forward.  Patience is definitely not something of a virtue of mine, but something I've longed aspired to.

Now, if only I can figure out how to post up my video!! It's awesome, and really explains how I overlap my rings without having to make special tools or smush fingers! :D  If anyone can assist I'd be most appreciative.  I have an HTC EVO.  It sucks too, because my last phone had no problem doing it lol

again, thank you everyone.  your support is most appreciated

YIS
B. Patricius

« Last Edit: 2013-06-29, 08:56:13 by B. Patricius »
"Be open with your thoughts, Be witty with your humor, Be kind with your words, Be sensible in your acts." - Lord Dane
Never theorize before you have data. Invariably, you end up twisting facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
~Officium-Honestas-Sacrificium~
my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/murphy.patrick.j

James Rogerson

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Most impressive Patricus !   I have a mandrel if you are in need of some coils. It is extra wire, and if you are interested in some help, you have my email. Chief, out.

B. Patricius

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James,

welcome and well met again!  Feel free to get to know everyone here.  I know you know most of them from Facebook.  Be sure to post up a greetings page here: http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/board,13.0.html  thanks for checking in on my work.  I appreciate the offer to assist on this.  And I'm looking forward to ordering a shield or two in the coming future 8)

for those of you who don't know, James makes wicked awesome shields and shield kits.
Joe Metz has one of his:


also, to add to this, my soft part of my kit, is happily done.  Tonight was quite emotional as I made the cross.  My lady graciously sewed it for me.  I'm wearing everything but my armour. 




Basically I need:
hauberk
chausses
helmet
sword and sword belt
accessories
- that's it.  I'm really excited

the hood turned out huge.  :D partially I think all my years performing as a Jedi came out, but also to get the hood to fall right on my shoulders, it needed to be this large.

Please offer any constructive criticism you can.  It means a lot to me coming from you guys.  This is my fighter kit, cotton, machine stitched, and machine washable.  Nothing nearly good enough for DOK.  I am wearing braies, hose, and a shirt based of St. Louis though, but I figured I'd save you guys the pain of seeing me in those :D

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B. Patricius
« Last Edit: 2013-06-29, 08:56:33 by B. Patricius »
"Be open with your thoughts, Be witty with your humor, Be kind with your words, Be sensible in your acts." - Lord Dane
Never theorize before you have data. Invariably, you end up twisting facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
~Officium-Honestas-Sacrificium~
my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/murphy.patrick.j