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Justifiable homicide?

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Sir Brian:

--- Quote from: Sir William on 2013-04-01, 12:24:49 ---Sir Brian, what if it were your son or daughter who got drunk at a party and had an accident like this one?  Would you really stand by after someone killed your daughter- spur of the moment, righteous anger, deserved vengeance...would that truly apply?
--- End quote ---

Well Sir William if you insist to inject me into such a hypothetical tragedy we should get some of the applicable details straight.

I have only a daughter who is married with a daughter of her own. I do have nieces and nephews that could fall within the criteria of the drunken driver story and have had another nephew twelve years ago OD on heroin after a long and difficult struggle to stay clean; he is also the older half-brother of my nephew who is currently struggling with drug addiction as well. I also have several in-laws who are alcoholics/drug addicts or recovering alcoholics/drug addicts so I am acutely aware of the pain, loss and anxiety of loved ones subjugated by drugs and alcohol. Therefore I assure you all that I would feel the same way about my own child as I do towards my nephews and various in-laws with their substance abuse problems, that they simply are the walking dead. They are destroying their lives and as far as I’m concerned are untrustworthy until they get their ‘problem’ under control.

Also the ‘anxiety’ I referred to earlier is the anxiety of getting the news that they had killed themselves and/or someone else while under the influence because I consider as such being totally irresponsible behavior leaving them no excuse. IF my daughter was to kill someone because of her habitual irresponsibility I would of course grieve for her and her victim(s) but would not hold it against someone who took her life because of her own misconduct, most especially if it happened as it probably did in the story as an exceptionally strong emotional reaction.

If I were to cause another to die because of my irresponsibility then I consider my own life forfeit. That is the core principle I hold myself and everyone to regardless if they are a stranger or a beloved family member. So I think it is regrettable that I’ve disappointed you however these sentiments I’ve conveyed are an integral part of my beliefs and sometimes you have to stand alone with them and as such at the end of the day your disappointment or anyone else's for that matter is irrelevant to me if it means I must abandon or compromise on them.


--- Quote from: Lord Dane on 2013-04-01, 13:53:14 --- Which is why I support justice through the law. I won't tolerate eye for eye justice by vigilante acts or revenge killings. I will be sensibility in these matters bc that is why I do this for a living. I do know better. Wisdom comes from acting prudently. You can not take back actions with permanent consequences and think I'm sorry is going to cut it.
--- End quote ---

And if it was me in the situation as that father I would not offer an apology or an explanation beyond the simple statement of he killed my boys. – Which in accordance to my beliefs, correlates to living and dying if necessary, by the other edge of that proverbial sword.  ;)

Sir Steven T.:
Sir Brian, well said.
I am responsible for the actions of myself and my children until they reach adulthood, and even then to some degree afterwards. I have a son and a daughter and I will do everything in my power to raise them in safety and with understanding that there are consequences to ones actions. Lawyers play games with the truth, they warp and bend it, in my opinion they are often the prime anti-knight, as they will not lie, but are often called upon to defend those whome they know are guilty. In this case, I might have done the same as this grief stricken father. This man attacked his family, destroyed his future, and killed his family. This is not an "accident", when he chose to arm himself with a vehicle and aim it at this mans family it was premeditated. However, the father has to face the consequences of his actions as well, he should stand trial. The truth is this man will be haunted for the rest of his days with the pain of his loss, and the image of taking another mans ife, justified or not it will haunt him. I do not believe any of us are morally qualified to really understand the hell that this man is in. Although there are some who have seen that dark abyss and suffered in thier lives similar losses that have given them a glimpse. Perhaps they, and they alone have the ability to understand what it means to travel through that hell and how to come back.

Sir James A:
Sir Brian, sorry to hear about the loss of your nephew. I agree with you on the self-destruction.

Until yesterday, I had forgot about my other cousin back in Dec, when I heard an update. He "swerved to miss a deer" and ended up totaling his car in a ditch. And flew out the windshield because he didn't have his seatbelt on. Except, at the hospital, they suspected he was drinking/drunk. He was. And he got *really* lucky in that the officer messed up the statement/paperwork and charges were dropped. Now he's addicted to pain medication. Here's the thing - he's married, has two kids, and a grandkid on the way. He's old enough to know better!

I feel bad for his mother and father in law, because they gave him his first car when he married their daughter, and he totaled it the next day. They gave him another car about a year ago, and now he's totaled that one. He was just idiotic, and luckily didn't physically hurt anyone else. I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for him because it was all self-inflicted and by his own choices and actions. Just as the driver of that car chose to drink under age, that doesn't grant him any immunity that if he does something while drunk, that it won't get him killed ... legal or illegal, good grades or bad grades, good kid or bad kid.

Sir William, the difference with the driver's father coming back to kill the other father, is that it's months after the fact. That's certainly premeditated. The father of the children who died killed the guy right there on the spot before the police even arrived. Anyone who has the mental capacity to function at a normal level after watching one of their children die at the hands of somebody else, with another dying right next to them - should probably win an award, or they're completely and utterly disconnected from their children. If the driver had killed the children, and the father went and shot him at court, or sought him out after the fact, I'd have a very large issue with it and say he should be charged accordingly. The driver being shot before the police had even arrived seems like a knee-jerk reaction to someone murdering his child, and not an intricate plot to get revenge.

But as to who "wins"? Who benefits?

No one.

Sir Brian:

--- Quote from: Sir Steven T. on 2013-04-01, 16:58:11 ---Sir Brian, well said.
I am responsible for the actions of myself and my children until they reach adulthood, and even then to some degree afterwards. I have a son and a daughter and I will do everything in my power to raise them in safety and with understanding that there are consequences to ones actions. Lawyers play games with the truth, they warp and bend it, in my opinion they are often the prime anti-knight, as they will not lie, but are often called upon to defend those whome they know are guilty. In this case, I might have done the same as this grief stricken father. This man attacked his family, destroyed his future, and killed his family. This is not an "accident", when he chose to arm himself with a vehicle and aim it at this mans family it was premeditated. However, the father has to face the consequences of his actions as well, he should stand trial. The truth is this man will be haunted for the rest of his days with the pain of his loss, and the image of taking another mans ife, justified or not it will haunt him. I do not believe any of us are morally qualified to really understand the hell that this man is in. Although there are some who have seen that dark abyss and suffered in thier lives similar losses that have given them a glimpse. Perhaps they, and they alone have the ability to understand what it means to travel through that hell and how to come back.
--- End quote ---

Most assuredly so Sir Steven T.! As you have stated none knows how they will react in any given situation. I have often been surprised by my own composure whilst in the midst of various traumatic pitfalls in my life and attribute those moments of clarity and control to a higher power than myself. Yet I know the other darker half of my psyche and the full measure of my rage along with the residual, absolute apathy I am left with after that rage has burnt out which is the basis of me seeming cavalier about the father’s spontaneous retribution. Truly his hell and punishment will be carried with him until the end of his days, all the more reason in my impassive mindset that the drunk driver deserved his death all the more.

Well stated Sir James and it is my hope and prayer your cousin gains wisdom before it is too late.

Lord Dane:
I offer my respects & prayers to those who suffer as such. Good men suffer while those who do evil will not always be punished justly or swiftly in our years, and sadly enough, in theirs either.... Good behavior should be rewarded and evil deeds be punished but it is not always so in this life.... Who judges what is good and evil?? Right and wrong?? Moral or immoral?? Who is good enough amongst men to judge?? And who is perfect enough to say they are just and righteous in what they do?? We all sin, we all suffer. We are all born, live, and die by the same will but not always under the same conditions. Although not always equal in life, we are made by the choices we make every day. Reflective of ideals, we are all judged in conscious by those thoughts and acts respectively by our own nature.   
   

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