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Chausses
Silvanus:
Thanks, Bernarr and Sir Edward. Sure am glad I asked for some advice before clicking the 'buy' button. Always a good idea. Sir Edward, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad someone else feels my pain. ;D
I got in touch with Frank at Viking Leather and he answered a couple questions about attaching the chausses to the belt. I will go with that for now. The benefit of the belt is a little more protection in the mid-section. I've been clobbered with a mace in the kidney before, on a day when I wasn't wearing my gambeson. An interesting feeling.
I am hoping to God this will be the solution I'm looking for. If not, I'll try the pourpoint.
Sir James A:
Frank's (or any other, like Pitbull) C-Belt design is different from a regular belt. On a regular belt, it's just a really wide triangle. A C-belt has a mild curvature to it. So instead of being a straight cut, it's cut on a very mild curve. What happens from that is the top edge of the belt is ~1" smaller overall diameter than the lower edge. Hard to show with ascii text, but basically:
Regular belt profile
| | {BODY} | |
C-Belt profile
/ / {BODY} \ \
The upper edge sitting tighter helps reduce the "belt sag" you get with a regular belt, where it slowly rides down on you. It'll still need to be tight, but less tight than a regular belt. It does still have the potential to fall completely off, since there's nothing holding it in place vertically other than your own girth, and the more comfortable (loose) you have it, the more it's going to want to wander when you move and the chausses weight tugs on it....
I've got a C-Belt by Pitbull, and while I did like it at first testings, it has a couple issues; the biggest is it digs into my thighs when sitting, though I've heard Frank's / Viking Leather's is a softer leather and is comfortable to sit in. As far as pointing for chausses, there's a long thread by Sir Ulrich about it - if you have trouble, post up, we'll help out. Alternative solution below, too.
I do second the suggestion of the pourpoint. It's a later period solution, but it is period - and it's also hidden under everything when all is said and done, so only we know of your sins. :D The biggest benefit of the pourpoint vs C-Belt is that the pourpoint is a vest, and goes over your shoulders; it doesn't have a lot of sag potential. It's also a multi-purpose garment that you can use for plate legs later, should you come to the shiny side. ;)
If you want a cheap and dirty "it works and it's hidden" solution, look at the pictures labeled "Fauld" here - http://james-anderson-iii.com/tutorials/pages/how-a-man-shall-be-armed - it's how I've done my fauld so far with a "cheater harness". I made it from scratch, but if you added X straps to a basic belt, that's all it is. Early transitional armor with just a breastplate (no backplate) used an X strap configuration for the upper straps, so it's quasi-period. The big benefit on this style vs the c-belt style is you don't have the "tabs" of the C-belt, just a simple standard belt that you can punch a few point holes through. The closer you have the X strap and pointing holes together, the better.
Then to actually point the chausses to the belt - for my "stocking" mail chausses, I added a leather strip at the top and I lace them to a pourpoint exactly like with the leather tabs on plate legs:
If it's a combat thing (as you mentioned the clubbin'), the C-Belt will give extra protection on the thighs, and is a wider belt around the back/kidney area. The pourpoint is slightly padded too, but probably twice the cost - so checking the C-Belt first seems like a good option. If you're not happy with it, give some of the other options a try. :)
Silvanus:
Thanks, Sir James. I hope the C-Belt works. Mine is on order. And your photos of the leather strip at the top of your chausses were among the ideas I has looked at. I may still do that even with the C-Belt. It can only improve things. Thanks also for your arming photos. I had actually made a fauld-like harness and used it for a while to hold up the chausses. But at the end of the day, the strain on my shoulders and collar bone made me go back to a belt. Although I see you are wearing yours over your padded jacket or gambeson. Would that I had thought of that.
Well, it will be a couple weeks or more before the belt is made and arrives. I will give an update when they do and I have tried them out!
Thanks for all the great advice and tips, my lords!
Sir James A:
--- Quote from: Silvanus on 2012-10-28, 12:40:33 ---Although I see you are wearing yours over your padded jacket or gambeson. Would that I had thought of that.
--- End quote ---
It's actually an unpadded arming coat by Revival Clothing. I do need to put some padding, but not from the fauld - after a few hours, the weight of the gorget, which has the breastplate *over* it, helmet attached to it, and pauldrons hanging directly from it ... I get that same collarbone / shoulder digging. A pourpoint is much more comfortable since the fabric is softer and wider at the shoulders, and properly worn, there's little to no tension on the shoulders themselves. Sir Ian has a great picture showing that. :)
Edit to add - The C-Belt will definitely work. It'll come down to personal preference on if you're comfortable in it, and if getting it tight enough to not sag is uncomfortable or comfortable.
Ian:
I believe this is the photo Sir James is referring to. Please note that the pourpoint does not meet at the center. This is absolutely required for the pourpoint to fit properly and do its job. The pourpoint must be worn tight and low over the hips and lower portion of the torso. If it meets in the middle, the tension is taken off the garment and immediately transferred to the shoulders. By keeping the garment tight, a weighty leg harness or maille chausses will not put any tension on the shoulder when you point them to your garment. Note how I can easily put my finger underneath the shoulder of the pourpoint while wearing plate cuisses and there's no tension on the shoulder. These are 'period' for 14th century plate leg harnesses, and we just don't know if they are or not for earlier periods, but I know that Joe Metz wears one, and he does maille period armor almost exclusively. You could in theory completely cut the shoulder seams apart and it would not affect the function of this garment one bit. Being made of material, it remains flexible and comfortable over long periods and evenly distributes weight across the hips and lower torso without digging or biting in to the body.
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