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Author Topic: Lance Armstrong is without honor  (Read 6047 times)

Bradamante

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Lance Armstrong is without honor
« on: 2012-10-23, 12:41:19 »
I wrote an impassioned blog piece about how betrayed I feel by Lance Armstrong. I thought there might be some here who would be interested in reading it.  Here's a link:

http://lcmccabe.blogspot.com/2012/10/lance-armstrong-is-without-honor.html
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Sir Edward

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Re: Lance Armstrong is without honor
« Reply #1 on: 2012-10-23, 13:33:40 »

Wow, I didn't know all of this was going on. Your article is well written!
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Sir William

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Re: Lance Armstrong is without honor
« Reply #2 on: 2012-10-23, 13:52:35 »
I can't argue with that article...I don't know much about the scandal (having zero interest in the cycling world will do that) but have heard the grumblings for some time now.  What I don't get is why is it just coming out now?  Don't they test athletes before and after major competitions?  I'm thinking like they do boxers and MMA fighters...pre-fight and post-fight screenings specifically for performance enhancers.  If they do, how'd he get away with it?

Nicely written article, Bradamante.
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Bradamante

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Re: Lance Armstrong is without honor
« Reply #3 on: 2012-10-23, 19:44:20 »
Thank you, Sir Edward and Sir William, for your kind words. My day job is as a laboratory scientist, so I am familiar with certain types of testing. I know they obtain urine samples from all the winning riders at every stage. I do not know how frequently they draw blood samples. Yesterday I spent some time reading online articles about cyclists and hematocrits and did not see much recent information about this. (Hematocrits is a calculated number from a complete blood count - or CBC - and it represents the packed red blood cell volume in your blood.) A healthy crit for an adult male is around 45%. From what I read, it appears there is an upper limit of 50% crit for riders. Part of the doping program Armstrong's team was engaging in autologous blood transfusions. They would have blood withdrawn and held for later use and then infused during rest days.

It is a dangerous practice and one that could be harmful if the blood is not stored and handled properly. So not only should they be testing for levels of artificial erythropoietin, but monitor the hematocrit levels of the riders to see variations.

The intricate thing would be that to truly follow riders' hematocrits on a serial basis, it should be done on the same instrument to minimize variations which might implicate cheating resulting in fines, bans, etc. that means the blood would have to be transported by plane each day to the central lab to be tested as whole blood is not stable and can't be frozen for later testing.

One of Lance Armstrong's arguments was that he was the most highly tested rider and he never failed a drug test. If you read between the lines, that doesn't mean he didn't dope with steroids, synthetic EPO or blood transfusions, he just was never caught.  Then again, there are allegations that there were a few tests which seemed to be forgotten about when influence was applied.

Frozen urine might result in finding illicit levels of metabolites from banned substances that did not  have testing back when the specimens were obtained. Then again, I do not know if the scientists working on these issues truly know the long term stability of those analytes. In my lab, we will use some aliquots of high enzymes found from patients for doing parallel studies for new reagents, etc. the problem is that each Analyte will have a different length of stability. Some are two months, some six, some longer if held at -20 degrees C.

So the reason this is coming out now is that there was a concerted effort to follow the rumors and found eleven former team mates who went on record and confessed to breaking the rules of cycling to be on Lance's team.

This includes my county's own Levi Leipheimer. It is sad that he is also someone who did not live up to the public adoration he received for being a winning cyclist.

The big difference between Lance and Levi is that Levi has not engaged in personal attacks to cover his guilt. At least as far as I know.
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Sir William

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Re: Lance Armstrong is without honor
« Reply #4 on: 2012-10-23, 20:00:14 »
I think it is like any other large sporting organization...which means, in short, that politics play their part.  It would explain why he's gotten away with it for so long...someone wanted him to remain at the top despite whatever transgressions he was guilty of.
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Sir Brian

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Re: Lance Armstrong is without honor
« Reply #5 on: 2012-10-23, 20:22:17 »
Well written article indeed Bradamante! I wouldn’t also attribute a lot of the Lance Armstrong’s sponsors’ interest in keeping any wrongdoings on his part kept secret. Pity he turned out to be a much lesser man than he posed to be. Arrogance is all well and good if it adds impetus to achieving difficult goals but is far too often the vehicle of narcissistic delusions.  :(
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Bradamante

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Re: Lance Armstrong is without honor
« Reply #6 on: 2012-10-24, 12:43:34 »
Sir William,
Undoubtedly there were those in positions of power that helped him get away with this for so long. There are allegations that there was a positive test in the Tour of Switzerland that seemed to somehow go away during the investigation.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/lab-chief-lance-armstrongs-2001-tour-de-suisse-test-suspicious-not-proof_262117

Now they no longer have the sample, but then again, I don't know even if they retained a frozen aliquot how long you could retain the integrity of the sample.  Plus repeated freezing and thawing of specimens tend to degrade the integrity as well.

This then leads to the relying of the testimony from eyewitnesses at the time.

Sir Brian,
I think his sponsors were interested in having a celebrity linked with their product who was popular and revered. As soon as it became clear that he was not the man he purported to be, they dropped him.  I agree with your assessment that  "Arrogance is all well and good if it adds impetus to achieving difficult goals but is far too often the vehicle of narcissistic delusions."

If you are interested in reading the USADA's reasoned argument against him, here is a link to a PDF download:


http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

Bradamante
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Bradamante

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Re: Lance Armstrong is without honor
« Reply #7 on: 2012-10-27, 22:41:00 »
I started reading the USADA's reasoned argument, which is a 202 page summary of the evidence against Lance Armstrong.  It is devastating.

There are statements of not only blood doping, but use of EPO, testosterone, growth hormone, cortisone, and steroids.

Lance used these drugs in his career before he was diagnosed and treated for cancer as well as after he recovered from cancer.

The team not only used blood doping, but if they were about to have their hematocrits checked - they'd sneak off to get an infusion of saline to lower their crits.

It is a culture of deceit.

The power of this story is that if Lance Armstrong had never gotten cancer, he would never have become a worldwide celebrity. There are many men who have been winners of the Tour de France, but none had the stirring personal interest story that was the "Lance Armstrong facing Death and coming back to become a champion" myth.

I have read enough of the Reasoned Decision and several of the accompanying affidavits to accept that those men who I admired and cheered for were not worthy of my time. This includes Levi Leipheimer, a rider who calls my county his home.

I wonder if there are any professional cyclists who are clean.  I also don't know if there is any real way to enforce the anti-doping rules, since there is an entire industry designed to subvert the testing.

I have lost respect for this sport and am no longer interested in following it at all.  If I watch any of the Tour de France in the future, it will be with the sound off so that I can better enjoy watching the beauty of the French countryside zooming past a camera lens.

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Sir Brian

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Re: Lance Armstrong is without honor
« Reply #8 on: 2012-10-28, 10:31:30 »
I certainly understand and concur with your sentiments Bradamante! Back in 1985 I stopped being a football fan when the then underdog New England Patriots surpassed all the long odds against them in the playoffs and made it to the Super Bowl for the first time, only to be destroyed by the Chicago Bears. I could accept the bittersweet loss until the Boston Globe revealed several days later that a handful of the Patriots players were using drugs during the season and that some players threw a cocaine party during Super Bowl week!  >:(

I decided then that I would not support or follow any professional sports since it only enables the entire sports industries to promote and glamorize 'star' athletes without concern or conscience of those same 'stars' integrity, honor or morality. I have much better heroes to admire and look up to; Like men, women and even children of courage, humility, diligence and self-sacrifice. Such heroes surround us each and every day but are not easily noticed because they do not do what they do for the glory or monetary riches but for the betterment of whom they serve and joy of making a difference. They are the kind of people I aspire to be like although I am woefully inadequate.
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Sir James A

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Re: Lance Armstrong is without honor
« Reply #9 on: 2012-10-29, 15:05:06 »
I decided then that I would not support or follow any professional sports since it only enables the entire sports industries to promote and glamorize 'star' athletes without concern or conscience of those same 'stars' integrity, honor or morality. I have much better heroes to admire and look up to; Like men, women and even children of courage, humility, diligence and self-sacrifice. Such heroes surround us each and every day but are not easily noticed because they do not do what they do for the glory or monetary riches but for the betterment of whom they serve and joy of making a difference. They are the kind of people I aspire to be like although I am woefully inadequate.

Hear hear!!
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Sir William

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Re: Lance Armstrong is without honor
« Reply #10 on: 2012-11-02, 17:36:08 »
I certainly understand and concur with your sentiments Bradamante! Back in 1985 I stopped being a football fan when the then underdog New England Patriots surpassed all the long odds against them in the playoffs and made it to the Super Bowl for the first time, only to be destroyed by the Chicago Bears. I could accept the bittersweet loss until the Boston Globe revealed several days later that a handful of the Patriots players were using drugs during the season and that some players threw a cocaine party during Super Bowl week!  >:(

I decided then that I would not support or follow any professional sports since it only enables the entire sports industries to promote and glamorize 'star' athletes without concern or conscience of those same 'stars' integrity, honor or morality. I have much better heroes to admire and look up to; Like men, women and even children of courage, humility, diligence and self-sacrifice. Such heroes surround us each and every day but are not easily noticed because they do not do what they do for the glory or monetary riches but for the betterment of whom they serve and joy of making a difference. They are the kind of people I aspire to be like although I am woefully inadequate.

About 8 years ago or so there was a primetime slot tv show called 'Playmakers' - I know of it because I was a big fan of the series, even got it on DVD when the announcement went out that, despite being the highest rated show ever put out by ESPN (except for the Sunday Night Football show), it was being canceled due to pressures from the NFL, who felt it portrayed professional football in a 'negative light'.  If you substitute that for 'the truth' you would be right on the money.  This show's star RB, a rookie from the midwest, got addicted to crack cocaine- so much so that he had his dealer hooking him up at the stadium just prior to gametime.  They even showed how he beat the piss test (it looked painful, very painful) and all that jazz, but it also dealt with other off-the-field issues, like their starting QB (a Tom Brady type of course) being a regular Lothario, having the team mgr spot likely bed partners via binoculars while the QB is on the field; the aging RB who is still trying to vie for the top spot, a linebacker with paternity issues, their soft hands TE with a blockbuster secret- the list goes on.  Well scripted, with a very convincing cast...I was completely drawn in.  The NFL has a lot of money and a lot of clout...they'll do anything to protect that business, even allowing their players to do things that the ordinary citizen would be thrown in jail for, they get off with a tap to the wrist.  Except for Michael Vick. 

With all that said, I'm still a NY Giants fan, can't help it.
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