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Religion and Chivalry
Sir Edward:
Talk about "kicking the hornet's nest"... On the Armour Archive, this message I'm quoting below takes it to a whole different level!
(http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1146118#1146118)
--- Quote ---Chef, unless I misunderstand you, I find your conception of chivalry to be hidebound, rigid, antiquated, regressive, and yes, vile.
For you, as best I can tell, to be chivalrous, one must be Christian, European, of Noble Birth, and quite willing to victimize anyone who is not those things.
Chef, in your opinion, can a Jew be chivalrous? An Episcopalian? A Lutheran? A Baptist? A Lollard? A woman?
Chef, do you consider yourself chivalrous?
Do you eat meat on Friday?
Do you beat your children?
--- End quote ---
I'm amused. :)
Just a side note, as this is probably a good time to mention this. If the subject of this thread (on this forum), or any other topic ever makes anyone uncomfortable, everyone is always free to message me privately, as I'm the moderator. My intention is to allow civil discussion of a wide range of topics. A heated debate is fine, but the message I quoted above is perhaps getting a bit too personal, and if it were on this forum, I'd probably be posting reminders as such at this point.
Sir Edward:
I just wanted to quote one more fragment from the Armour Archive's discussion, then I'll shut up for a while. I really enjoyed these paragraphs. Very well said:
(http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1147103#1147103)
--- Quote ---Not being a man braver -or less brave- than anyone, I am always drawn to a chuckle when I read about valour in the SCA field. I find it immensely easy to charge three or four fighters VASTLY superior to me technically (but then who is not superior to me technically) with complete knowledge that I am about to get creamed. If you look at Urusus pics of me at events, you can see I have a large, sh** eatin grin every time too.
Nothing is going to happen to you! except a bruised ego if you allow yours to be bruised by something as obvious as losing to a technically superior fighter. Or a bunch of them. Valor in the field is no different than lack of hesitation in a Football quarterback, or a fierce dive by baseball player. It shows commitment and determination, but not courage in the narrow sense.
One offends REAL war veterans by the comparison.
No Sir , your chivalry, or your assumption of it must come from somewhere else. You must develop your knowledge of a just, gentle and morally and ethicall corageous living. And choose how you behave according to that knowledge.
If faith helps you develop that knowledge, I salute you. If you reach it by other means, I salute you as well. The important part is the final result.
--- End quote ---
Sword Chick:
Hi Ed,
Great comments. It reminds me of a piece of advice I was given long ago, I don't even remember by whom, and I passed it on my Cub Scouts many times when I was den mother. You can't be brave, unless you are scared. That doesn't mean going out and doing something risky just to prove you are brave. It means soldiering on when faced with your fears. (This was usually in reference to spiders in the cub's tent.) :)
Sir Edward:
That's true, and that was something I had to figure out for myself a long time ago. Courage is not a lack of fear, but rather an ability to face it. IMHO, fear is healthy and makes us strong, as long as it doesn't take over. Doing what must be done, despite those fears, is what makes one brave.
Sir Brian:
IMO the entire concept of Christianity being a requirement for Chivalry is a bit absurd because
both ideals are so dynamically opposed to each other. TRUE faith in the teachings of Jesus, in no
shape or form condones violence. The stronghold of Christianity during the middle ages, which
coincides with the advent in the modern conceptions of the chivalric (Bushidō) code, was the
Catholic Church whose foundation in the teachings of Jesus was dubious at best and for sale to
the highest bidder at the worst. :(
The ministry of Jesus was far more than just pacifistic teaching. His pacifism wasn’t based solely on
mankind having a spiritual love for each other but also upon a de-emphasis of our flesh and earthly
lives, including the very preservation of our earthly lives.
Here is some relevant scriptures if anyone would like to check them out here:
http://www.biblegateway.com/
Luke 22:35-38
Matthew 26:52-53
John 18:36
Matthew 10:16
Matthew 10:39
--- Quote from: Sword Chick on 2008-07-18, 20:43:27 ---I hadn't replied to your previous post, because I was hoping someone else would join in the discussion. Looks like it's just you and me, Kid.
--- End quote ---
and then there were four! ;)
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