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Chivalry & Knighthood Traditions (Facebook Post)

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Sir Brian:
Could Wyatt Earp be considered a knight? How about Mahatma Gandhi? How about Queen Esther from the bible or Queen Eleanor the matriarch of the Plantagenet royal line? The true ideals of knighthood cannot be confined to a selective groups perspective. One side would say those I have listed above were not for this obvious reason or another. What is essentially the common denominator for all those listed above is their courage, honor and perseverance to remain true to themselves and their convictions. When you are armored and armed with such fortitude you will out shine Sir Galahad.

Joshua Santana:

--- Quote ---Could Wyatt Earp be considered a knight? How about Mahatma Gandhi? How about Queen Esther from the bible or Queen Eleanor the matriarch of the Plantagenet royal line? The true ideals of knighthood cannot be confined to a selective groups perspective. One side would say those I have listed above were not for this obvious reason or another. What is essentially the common denominator for all those listed above is their courage, honor and perseverance to remain true to themselves and their convictions. When you are armored and armed with such fortitude you will out shine Sir Galahad.
--- End quote ---

If this was a question to me, I would answer Yes to all of the individuals you have mentioned Sir Brian.  The common denominator was their courage, Determination and Integrity especially Sir Galahad.  I am in full agreement with you.


--- Quote ---By the 16th century it had pretty much become a title that was at the bottom rung of nobility (prior to that, it wasn't nobility at all). At this time, people actively avoided getting knighted, because of the responsibilities and financial burdens it placed on them. It had ceased to be a type of warrior.

--- End quote ---

That is true especially in England towards the 17th Century it becomes the case. Whereas in other countries such as Italy or Spain there were individuals that were part of Chivalric orders or were able to afford Knighthood. 


--- Quote ---Many knights earned their titles through deeds and qualities. Others were made knights just because they were on hand when there weren't enough knights. Some knightings were purely political.
--- End quote ---

Very true, and this to me speaks well about Knighthood throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance, but we cannot forget those who lived by the Code and became famous because they stuck on to what they believed in.  We must the same.

Sir Edward:

--- Quote from: Joshua Santana on 2012-04-03, 10:37:50 ---
--- Quote ---Many knights earned their titles through deeds and qualities. Others were made knights just because they were on hand when there weren't enough knights. Some knightings were purely political.
--- End quote ---

Very true, and this to me speaks well about Knighthood throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance, but we cannot forget those who lived by the Code and became famous because they stuck on to what they believed in.  We must the same.

--- End quote ---

I bring it up mostly to point out that without knowing the context, we can't automatically assume that every single knight was out there gaining glory and saving damsels in distress. Having a personal lineage or unbroken tradition brings a potential mixed bag.

If I could trace my lineage to a specific knight, I'd want to know what kind of man he was. Did he earn it with his deeds, or was he knighted out of convenience? Did he buy it, or was it thrust upon him? Was he nothing more than a minor noble who was uncouth and dishonest, but had the wealth, or was he a paragon of virtue? I think these things matter.

Sir Brian:

--- Quote from: Sir Edward on 2012-04-03, 13:38:04 ---
--- Quote from: Joshua Santana on 2012-04-03, 10:37:50 ---
--- Quote ---Many knights earned their titles through deeds and qualities. Others were made knights just because they were on hand when there weren't enough knights. Some knightings were purely political.
--- End quote ---

Very true, and this to me speaks well about Knighthood throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance, but we cannot forget those who lived by the Code and became famous because they stuck on to what they believed in.  We must the same.

--- End quote ---

I bring it up mostly to point out that without knowing the context, we can't automatically assume that every single knight was out there gaining glory and saving damsels in distress. Having a personal lineage or unbroken tradition brings a potential mixed bag.

If I could trace my lineage to a specific knight, I'd want to know what kind of man he was. Did he earn it with his deeds, or was he knighted out of convenience? Did he buy it, or was it thrust upon him? Was he nothing more than a minor noble who was uncouth and dishonest, but had the wealth, or was he a paragon of virtue? I think these things matter.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Sir Edward on 2012-04-03, 13:38:04 ---
--- Quote from: Joshua Santana on 2012-04-03, 10:37:50 ---
--- Quote ---Many knights earned their titles through deeds and qualities. Others were made knights just because they were on hand when there weren't enough knights. Some knightings were purely political.
--- End quote ---

Very true, and this to me speaks well about Knighthood throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance, but we cannot forget those who lived by the Code and became famous because they stuck on to what they believed in.  We must the same.

--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

The precise perception all should always keep in mind when applying any measure of reverence for any person or caste is to adhere more to their actions than their titles or renown. To paraphrase from the words of the messiah, ‘A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit; neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.’

Joshua Santana:

--- Quote ---I bring it up mostly to point out that without knowing the context, we can't automatically assume that every single knight was out there gaining glory and saving damsels in distress. Having a personal lineage or unbroken tradition brings a potential mixed bag.

If I could trace my lineage to a specific knight, I'd want to know what kind of man he was. Did he earn it with his deeds, or was he knighted out of convenience? Did he buy it, or was it thrust upon him? Was he nothing more than a minor noble who was uncouth and dishonest, but had the wealth, or was he a paragon of virtue? I think these things matter.
--- End quote ---

Indeed, I would do the same if I were to discover any famous Knight in my family genealogy.  I would have investigated any and all documents to see if the Knight was a paragon of virtue in his time or did he earn for service to King, Country etc. 


--- Quote ---The precise perception all should always keep in mind when applying any measure of reverence for any person or caste is to adhere more to their actions than their titles or renown. To paraphrase from the words of the messiah, ‘A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit; neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.’
--- End quote ---

Indeed and Amen!  That is exactly it!

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